How would an auction house be worse exactly?

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bordillo wrote:

Even if it was for maps and currency items, how exactly would that make the game worse than it is today?

Its a shitty meme. This is why :

- Almost every RPG is about leveling your character and getting end game gear to do end game content. Almost every online RPG has an auction house and it hasnt "ruined" them...if anything, it has helped increase the playerbase.

- The argument that bots would exploit the AH is silly because bots exploit ANYTHING. They exploit farming maps for currency. Conclusion : We must remove the ability to farm maps from the game so that actual players wouldnt be able to do it either. See the problem?

- An AH doesnt make it easier to obtain good gear...it makes it easier to TRADE...there is a huge difference. You want to make it harder to obtain good gear? Nerf drop rates, remove MF from the game, etc. That would actually limit the amount of good gear entering the economy. An AH just removes price fixers and people who never reply to whispers.

- The economy is reset every 3 months anyway and standard is a ghost town full of price fixers and troll listings (my min roll misprescence has been listed for more than a month and nobody wants it, I will refuse to lower the price because I love the idea of not selling it!). There were less than five shaped orchard maps listed in standard after flashback ended. Pretty much impossible to buy shaped maps in any sizable quantity there.

The real reaosn is this : Most online RPGs add new content regularly so that players have more goals to work towards to even if they have end game stats/gear. GGG does pretty much the exact opposite...they wipe the economy every 3 months with "leagues" that dont introduce new content, just side content. Instead of introducing better gear, tougher bosses and higher tier maps, they wipe, force you to start over, and grind the story/masters/atlas all over again. This is obviously way easier than introducing higher level content or higher level gear.

If GGG added higher level content regularly (like, you know, most online RPGs), players would always have something to work towards to even if there were no forced wipes. But thats obviously harder than wiping the economy every 3 months.

And the reason why inflation is such a huge problem every league is because the currency sinks are unattractive to most of the playerbase. Ask your average, casual player, whether they would rather sit in their hideout for hours alt spamming to try and craft something, or go kill mobs, and guess which answer they will choose.

You can see why inflation is so high in Incursion : Because chaos sinks are unattractive with poor zana mods. If currency sinks were more attractive, this wouldnt be a problem.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Nothing new is being said here... we do this about once every other month or so. You don't agree with their hypothesis. Great. Convince us. Don't just keep saying we're wrong.

To answer your question... because it takes 9 minutes, only a few of the players are willing to do it. There's a cost. Without that cost, the market would be flooded with items that were being held by players not willing to pay that cost. You would find that nothing you wanted to trade in the AH would sell for anything near what you would want for it simply because there's tons of people out there who would underbid you. You would be able to get "good enough" gear for alch shards. Maps would be free. Nothing would hold any of its value and the game would collapse.

You are only partially right. will more people list more items if its easy to do so, yes of course. However how many of those people actually have items of value that are not listing them already, not very damn many. Most people list items of value they find already, unless they are playing SSF. Items of value will hold their own, consumed items like maps may actually rise in value slightly, because there is a massive amount of people that hate trading for maps as it is ludacris as it is, however in a buyout trade system, more people would buy and consume maps constantly, instead of spending hours buying them everyday.

The lowend value items 10c or less would most likely become 1c or junk items, but that is more because of their drop rates being far too market flooding.

If game has any trading system then game would benefit from action house (i personally many times mentioned that before and pointed that Hellgate:London had very nice AH).

But i stopped. Its not worth the effort - i prefer to invest my time and attention into something else.

If some of you are so sure that AH doesnt destroy games then i have a request. Show me 1 game that has not limited AH or item binding system (yeap BDO and WoW will not do the trick) where there isnt a single "please fix economy" post on their forums or reddit. I checked about 50 and im pretty sure it doesnt exist, feel free to prove me wrong.

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petitcrabe1 wrote:

How do you sell less stash tabs because auction house usually remove items from your inventory ?

Spoiler

Auction house

It's their choices, it's their game and it's the decision they made. They accept it, live with it and make money from that decision. <--- Totally fine too. But anything saying auction house isnt a solution is the same as taking a sentence of the bible to say the bible is true.

This is not neccesary, to be honest. For example, then can make an "auction stash tab", and each item put in that tab, can be added to AH. When it's added to AH, it becames "locked", until it's sold or you cancel an auction (which you cant do if any bid was made).

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Katastruff wrote:

GGG said that no HA will come to the game, and they said it again, and again, and again, and again. But still, we get a new rant post about trade/HA every fucking day.

Cant people read anymore?

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Chris wrote:

etc

Jesus that's some brainwashing shit right there, lmao

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kuciol wrote:

If some of you are so sure that AH doesnt destroy games then i have a request. Show me 1 game that has not limited AH or item binding system (yeap BDO and WoW will not do the trick) where there isnt a single "please fix economy" post on their forums or reddit. I checked about 50 and im pretty sure it doesnt exist, feel free to prove me wrong.

They don't care about the economy. Every single "I want an AH"-thread, is driven by "I wantz to zell izi and fast". Either they are unable to see the repercussions, or they don't care. I'm sure they thought D3 was a beautiful game with a beautiful economy while it had its AH. Fun times.

In my eyes: Trade is the most powerful tool in PoE. It can make the game easy mode. Why shouldn't a tool like this require some effort?

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Katastruff wrote:

Cant people read anymore?

We can

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Chris wrote:

Today's news post
The ability to trade any item is a fundamental part of why people enjoy playing Path of Exile - if you're lucky, you can find amazing stuff that you can trade for all the items needed to create an entire new character build.

You see? GGG WANTS players trading with each other.

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Chris wrote:

Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.
People who are heavily engaged in trade perform fewer item upgrades to achieve their final build. They get there in fewer steps, because they can easily buy items that are close to what they need. Simply put, their character progression is more about trading than it is about getting items from monsters.

Exactly, it's a NATURAL CONSEQUENCE of "The ability to trade any item is a fundamental part of why people enjoy playing Path of Exile". BINGO! If you WANT players to trade with each other, they will get most of their upgrade with trading. Who will trade for items, that he can find himself? No one trades for Scrolls of Wisdom or Orbs of Transmutation, because everyone can find enough himself!

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Chris wrote:

Easy trade means reducing drop rates

BINGO! To prevent players from progressing too fast, you have to reduce drop rates. But players still progress quite fast, because they sell EVERY used item to others. When someone buys an upgrade, he sells his old gear to another guy. Good gear never gets removed from the game.
GGG, you COULD make items "Bind on Equip", so "used items" would be removed from trading, essentially slowing down progression.

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Chris wrote:

Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great

Nope, it depends on how you implement your itemization and gameplay. If you make too rare and too powerful items, it's natural that players, who own those items, will have huge advantages over those who dont. It's just a consequence of your game's design.

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Chris wrote:

Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation

Indeed, it does. But the best way to prevent automation is to design game so it's convenient for human players, not for bots. ATM, PoE is literally designed FOR BOTS! Bots have massive advantage when it comes to farming easy repetive content with 1 click, picking up and identifying all potentially valuable rares, posting items for fake cheap price, making complex vendor recipes or using private API to "snipe" cheap items. If game content was more skill-engaging, like in Dark Souls series, bot would have serious troubles farming it.

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Chris wrote:

From the start, we knew that Path of Exile needed the ability to trade items and that we had to be careful not to make it too easy.

And now, the most important question - HOW EXACTLY do you plan to control, how HARDER or EASIER your trade will be, i.e. how will you reduce the number of trades by 50%, if your balance team asks for that? If they ask for something like "increase Exalted drop rate by 25%" or "increase HP of Shaper by 33%", or "reduce average DPS of rare 1-h swords by 10%", it can be performed quite easily, you simple fix few numbers. But you CANT do the same with trading, there are no "variables" that might allow you to do so. You can perform only such drastical changes as "adding BoE to items" or "adding AH", or "remove item indexing", etc. Trading is essntially an interaction between players, and to control it, you must control humans' minds, which you cant and isnt allowed to do. Of course, you suffer the consequences.

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kuciol wrote:

If some of you are so sure that AH doesnt destroy games then i have a request. Show me 1 game that has not limited AH or item binding system (yeap BDO and WoW will not do the trick) where there isnt a single "please fix economy" post on their forums or reddit. I checked about 50 and im pretty sure it doesnt exist, feel free to prove me wrong.

I think the problem with most of those games is not ah itself but developers making bad decisions - like in Hellgate: Online. They went into Korean Grind thing and that was the thing that destroyed game.

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IIPheXII wrote:

Worse than the current system won't be, that's for sure. People will keep telling about the "but it will be easier to get a lot of items". That's a giant lie. The number of Kaom's heart listed for trade won't change. High amount, low demand items are garbage overall and nobody really buys them, so if market gets inflated on those it's no big deal.

These people simply can't realize there is no challenge in whispering someone and getting no answer. Repeat for x100 until someone does and you got your item. It's just time consuming and frustrating wait (more like a queue simulator). Not to mention having to leave your map to trade someone.

And when you leave a map to make a sell, game crashes, and the guy never talk to you again, and you dont know who was it?? Priceless, that's why an AH would be bad xD xD