how dodge/evasion works ?

"
Abdiel_Kavash wrote:
"
remiIafo wrote:
Regarding Flameblast (like atziri's) DOES NOT "HIT" , it counts as a ground Damage like caustic clouds or corpse explosion which means you CANNOT evade, dodge or Block it.


This is not true. Flameblast hits just fine, with all Hit-related effects working as usual.

You cannot Evade it because you fundamentally cannot Evade Spells. If you have Spell Dodge or Spell Block, you can Dodge/Block it.


Flameblast is one of those skills that doesn't behave in obviously ways. I standby what i said, flameblast DOES NOT HIT as far as evasion, dodge and block is concerned.

Flameblast does hit as far as support gems are concerned.

Flameblast like some other gems are the exception rather than the rule.
"
remiIafo wrote:
"
Abdiel_Kavash wrote:
"
remiIafo wrote:
Regarding Flameblast (like atziri's) DOES NOT "HIT" , it counts as a ground Damage like caustic clouds or corpse explosion which means you CANNOT evade, dodge or Block it.


This is not true. Flameblast hits just fine, with all Hit-related effects working as usual.

You cannot Evade it because you fundamentally cannot Evade Spells. If you have Spell Dodge or Spell Block, you can Dodge/Block it.


Flameblast is one of those skills that doesn't behave in obviously ways. I standby what i said, flameblast DOES NOT HIT as far as evasion, dodge and block is concerned.

Flameblast does hit as far as support gems are concerned.

Flameblast like some other gems are the exception rather than the rule.


Im really curious where you got this blatantly wrong information.
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Goldarm5 wrote:
"
remiIafo wrote:
"
Abdiel_Kavash wrote:


This is not true. Flameblast hits just fine, with all Hit-related effects working as usual.

You cannot Evade it because you fundamentally cannot Evade Spells. If you have Spell Dodge or Spell Block, you can Dodge/Block it.


Flameblast is one of those skills that doesn't behave in obviously ways. I standby what i said, flameblast DOES NOT HIT as far as evasion, dodge and block is concerned.

Flameblast does hit as far as support gems are concerned.

Flameblast like some other gems are the exception rather than the rule.


Im really curious where you got this blatantly wrong information.


1000's of playtime hours. Got problem? then burden of proof is on you. My proof (for this thread) is the OP's experience of not being able to dodge EVER atziri's flameblast.
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remiIafo wrote:

1000's of playtime hours. Got problem? then burden of proof is on you. My proof (for this thread) is the OP's experience of not being able to dodge EVER atziri's flameblast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NiXftOSgoo#t=0m21s
and a few seconds later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NiXftOSgoo#t=1m5s
(same video different timestamp)

Yes, there is a problem.

theres probably way more in this video alone but you are clearly wrong.

1000s hours of bad observation apparently, and using OP's one fight known for being so easily cheesed nowadays every phase is like 1-5 seconds... on the uber version.

edit: maybe atziri's flameblast different but I never tanked it with dodge char actually...
Last edited by biyte on Apr 16, 2018, 9:36:03 PM
"
biyte wrote:
"
remiIafo wrote:

1000's of playtime hours. Got problem? then burden of proof is on you. My proof (for this thread) is the OP's experience of not being able to dodge EVER atziri's flameblast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NiXftOSgoo#t=0m21s
and a few seconds later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NiXftOSgoo#t=1m5s
(same video different timestamp)

Yes, there is a problem.

theres probably way more in this video alone but you are clearly wrong.

1000s hours of bad observation apparently, and using OP's one fight known for being so easily cheesed nowadays every phase is like 1-5 seconds... on the uber version.

edit: maybe atziri's flameblast different but I never tanked it with dodge char actually...


Video 1: A clear miss..
Video 2: a hit but not a kill, maybe lag? maybe desync.

Instead of perpetuating this back and forth why don't you actually attempt to answer the OP's question.
The answer is simple and was already provided: OP simply had bad rng.
The only other possible answer is that there would be a bug preventing Atziri Flameblast from being dodgeable.


But another misinformation in this thread I missed on the first read:

"
it counts as a ground Damage like caustic clouds or corpse explosion which means you CANNOT evade, dodge or Block it.


There are 4 damage categorys, which are Attack, Spell, Damage over Time and Secondary dmg. The reason Caustic Clouds damage cant be blocked is that it is Damage over Time, which doesnt hit and without hit you cant block it. Corpse explosions are Secondary dmg, which does hit, but cant be blocked/dodged because there are only Attack/Spell Block/Dodge. If GGG would decide to put Secondary dmg Block/Dodge into the game you would be able to Block/Dodge corpse explosions.
"
Goldarm5 wrote:
The answer is simple and was already provided: OP simply had bad rng.
The only other possible answer is that there would be a bug preventing Atziri Flameblast from being dodgeable.


But another misinformation in this thread I missed on the first read:

"
it counts as a ground Damage like caustic clouds or corpse explosion which means you CANNOT evade, dodge or Block it.


There are 4 damage categorys, which are Attack, Spell, Damage over Time and Secondary dmg. The reason Caustic Clouds damage cant be blocked is that it is Damage over Time, which doesnt hit and without hit you cant block it. Corpse explosions are Secondary dmg, which does hit, but cant be blocked/dodged because there are only Attack/Spell Block/Dodge. If GGG would decide to put Secondary dmg Block/Dodge into the game you would be able to Block/Dodge corpse explosions.


How is what i said misinformation? all you did was support my statement in a more articulated and detailed way. We can agree that flameblast isn't a DoT, so then it would count as secondary damage.

Side opinion, Secondary damage is darn generic of a term, it more vague in my opinion then ground damage. At least ground damage applies well to flameblast.
"
Secondary damage is darn generic of a term, it more vague in my opinion then ground damage.


Its not vague at all. Direct quote from GGG themself:

"
There are four "categories" of damage - the different kinds of damage calculation can happen. They can't overlap and all damage has to be exactly one of them. Those are Spell, Attack, Secondary and Damage Over Time.


Source: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1528287
It was not "lag" or "miss". As i said there are lots of occasion in that video where it is clearly in hitbox.

Only reason why I considered possibility of an exception is because monster skills are not always same as player skills and it was possible to be another damage type secondary damage.

But any quick search can show it is regular spell damage as 90% of people probably assumed.
"afk atziri" returns plenty of both: aegis (block), spell dodge

example from 3 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6RfAztaRXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24v4plYy27Y&

also try watching properly instead of saying at 2 time stamps it may have "lagged" or "miss" when there is clear evidence.
atziris flameblast can definitely be spell dodged, I dont know how someone gets untrue information and even tries to pass it off as factual.

Ive dodged it a tons of time because I usually play with some spell dodge (usually phase acro, but at least vaal grace)

cap spell dodge off vaal grace and eat one of those flameblasts, 3 out of 4 times you will dodge

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