How to sustain maps and currency?

I watch every top POE streamers, did the exact same things as them but sustaining maps is BS (yes i am calling it!) They usually use tricks like party play/guilds (which is impossible in EU because of lags) and selling/trading their shaped maps for others (selling/trading is NOT sustaining).

So sustaining maps is buying maps (period) with the currency you gain from mapping (here i usually do get more then i invest due to HIGH investment in MF) and here comes the other problem...buying maps on poe.trade.....is there something more frustrating in life than buying stuff from poe.trade?!

Do maps and put everything (alteration+ currency/things of worth and maps in an empty tab) and see what happens. maps i just generally lose while gaining some currency (fun end game right?, mapping to buy maps ;-)

Use currency on maps but dont go yolo on it (like vaaling and then do harbringer mod)

ALso don't forget, density is yet again nerfed in 3.2 which makes this possible (there was a time i was sustaining maps.....good old ARPG days)

"

Vias_Myton wrote:

Ive read your answers. I already do what you have written, except sextants, because Master ones are very expensive and dont drop and I have my atlas at 158/157, not especially shaped.

I wondering about your conclusion. You start your text by saying "You should expect to drop out of red maps sometimes". In the middle you say "NEVER EXPECT DROPS!" and still you claim "I sustained red maps".
In my book thats not "being able to sustain red maps".

Another question I have is: Where do you get your currency from to reroll your maps? From mapping alone?

Do you Vaal maps often? If so, do you run 8 mod maps?
Do you ID rare maps or run them unID?
Do you roll your maps for at least 90ish Quality and 30+ pack size?

Thats been really helpful for sustaining maps recently.

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In the linked thread I was explaining my approach to break into red maps and sustain them.
While you are busy trying to break into red tier, you should totally expect to drop out of red maps once in a while. It happens and is part of the game.
I did mention this quite a lot in the above mentioned thread, because I know many players think they should be able to sustain red maps as soon as they got like 5-10 reds and they got the gear to destroy higher tier maps. Then they dont get the expected return and complain on the forums about shitty map drops.
Thats not how it works, when you are busy building a pool and thats why I was stressing this out ;)

Thats also why you shouldnt expect drops. You´ll burn out quickly if you do.
I ran some really really well rolled maps and got absolutely nothing in return. Then - out of nowhere - it starts raining maps on a random map for no reason. It happens even on shitty rolled maps sometimes. For reasons unknown you get like 5-7 maps returns in a shit map...
Obviously the reason is RNG.

As we all know RNG can be a bitch.
To overcome RNG you need to run a lot of maps. And I mean a lot. Like actually doing hard work.
I already know the question coming up:
How am I supposed to run 100s of red maps, if I cant sustain them?
Well you are supposed to run even more yellows to (re-)build a decent pool of red maps. Many complaints I read in the past on the forums basically said: Im not willing to do this.
Thats your decision. If you are not willing to grind it out, you cant complain about not being able to sustain or the need to trade for maps.

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I was sustaining T13-T14 in Abyss just fine and didnt have to trade for maps (except for unlocks, when I got too impatient and wanted to be done with unlocking).
T15-T16 dropped occasionally, but I wouldnt say I was sustaining them. Still, I run a good amount of those maps.
And yes, I was funding rolling maps just by mapping and selling whatever drops I got.
I dont flip items or anything like that. Im playing the game, running maps - nonstop. And thats it.
And I was doing this solo. I am doing this solo every single league and I always sustain red maps.
Every single time.

To make profit from mapping, you need to be smart about spending your resources and have a crafting budget.
Just an example with some made up numbers, which need to be adjusted to the leagues reality obviously:

Say a T11 costs 10 chaos, then thats your crafting budget for a T11.
I always do reserve 3 chaos for Zana bloodlines and 1 Vaal Orb. If I want to chisel up the map as well, I need to factor that in too. So 4 chisel equal 1 chaos roughly. Same goes for Sextants.
Which means in conclusion:
Ill always have to reserve at least 4-5c for must have stuff, which leaves me with 5-6c for rolling the map. If I cant hit good map mods in 5-6 chaos, Ill slam a Vaal orb on the map and end the crafting process right there.
In case I cant run the map due to its mods, Ill sell it for 10c. I did reserve 3c for Zana, but never spent those 3c. So selling the map for 10c will make at least 3c profit.

If I do get a good enough rolled map and run it, all I need are items worth 10c in total to sustain the currency I spent on the map. Thats including everything.
Currency drops, 6 sockets, maps, essences, jewels and so on. You wont get 10c every single time, but you´ll get items worth 50+ chaos or some exalts eventually. As long as it evens out in the long run, you are sustaining currency and eventually make profit.

So yes, trading is crucial for sustaining currency - but again: I dont buy maps to sustain maps.
Also: Never convert your currency, if you dont have to.
In Abyss many players complained about not being able to sustain Vaal orbs, in Bestiary they complained about not being able to sustain Alch orbs. Next league they will complain about something else they cant sustain - because the are not smart.
If you need vaal orbs, start selling stuff for vaal orbs instead of chaos orbs. If you sell for chaos, you´ll have to buy vaals and lose money and time. Dont do that.


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I had some trouble with the changes to map mods in 3.1
Before you would try to go for some juicy mods, like curses. They would always grant a good amount of quant and pack size.
Now all you want is A LOT of mods, because all map mods got equalized - therefore really good mods no longer exist. You have to stack map mods now and it took my some time to get used to it.
Thats why vaal orbs are so good. Its the best, cheapest and most reliable way to get map with 6+ mods. But its also the best way to get a map your build cant run.
So the obvious conclusion is: Your league starter should be able to handle all map mods except for maybe 1-2. If your build cant handle like 6 mods, you dont want to use vaal orbs often.
If you dont do that, you wont get as many maps with lots of map mods.

Vaal Orbs are key for sustaining maps now.
Keep that in mind for 3.3 and plan a build that can handle all/most map mods.
You´ll notice the difference for sure.



Cheers

"

Orbaal wrote:

Do you Vaal maps often? If so, do you run 8 mod maps?
Do you ID rare maps or run them unID?
Do you roll your maps for at least 90ish Quality and 30+ pack size?

Thats been really helpful for sustaining maps recently.



Cheers

Thank you for your long and indepth answer.

No, I do not vaal maps, because then Zana would ask for 3 more. I rarely run unID maps, because they usually dont have quality and I dont want to spend 20 chisels for one map. If I do have one with quality, then yes, I do.
I do roll for 80+ quantity and 25+ pack size.

Maybe there was some missinformation on my side: I did not run out of red maps yet. I still have 30 maps of T13 or higher and if you count all red maps I actually have close to 100. Its standard after all.

I dont know how comparable your experiences in Abyss League is to mine in standard. Somehow you talk about getting 10c per map was easy. And if not sometime in the future an exalt or a rare drop may even it out for you. My exalt count in maps during the last few weeks is zero. And during that time Ive sold maybe 5 items for a couple of chaos. Its standard after all in this sense, too.

But that doesnt change that both my map pool and my currency pool is steadily going down by doing red maps. I have to buy maps to not drop out of T15 or T14 and they are not cheap.

On the other hand: No, I probably wont notice any differnce in future challenge leagues. Ive never made it to red tier maps in challenge leagues.

Start vaaling then :)
And ofc no Zana mods for vaaled maps, not worth it.

Running unID maps is amongst the most profitable things you can do, regardless if they come with quality or not.
Not so much for magic maps, but rare unID maps can be really really good.
Just make sure to check for reflect or whatever map mod your build has trouble dealing with and you are good to go.


Sustaining T14+ isnt easy and I never made it happen in temp leagues.
They do drop ofc, but Im nowhere near sustaining them.
If I wanted to do it, I would try to get perma elder influence on T14s and T15s, so I can then abuse Elder/Shaper ping pong for way more loot and maps.

The basic idea is:
You run only one specific T14 or T15 and is has to be either Elder or Shaper influenced.
(Means you need a good amount stockpiled before you even try to go for it)
Say its influenced by Shaper, you then run the map and after clearing Elder will take over and occupy the map. So either way, the map will always be influenced by Elder/Shaper.

This way you get more mobs and therefore more loot drops which might be maps.
But more importantly you will farm Elder/Shaper items every single time you run that map.
Idk how much good Elder/Shaper bases are worth in standard or if you have to hope for a well rolled item. But the chances of getting a valuable item every now and then is way higher on Elder/Shaper influenced maps, which will help you sustaining currency.
And by that logic, you can afford a higher crafting budget for those maps and therefore run better rolled maps for even more drops.

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Getting to red maps and sustaining them in a temp league is a challenge.
It takes time and knowledge to get there, but you can do it.

GGG confirmed already next league will be more like Breach league. So its gonna be spawning tons of mobs and loot. Those are easiest leagues to break into red maps and sustain them.
You might want to try again next league :)


Good luck

Thank you for your tips. Looks like there isnt much I can improve, but I will do what I can.