To all fixers, flippers, and scammers who will message me in bestiary

If you are a currency flippers, a scammer, a price fixer, a hoarder, someone following a streamer build and think i dont know...

Screw you.

I would rather vendor whatever unique item, lab enchantment, or div card i have then sell it to you. I would rather throw my currency into the dried lake then let you flip it, I would rather let my divination cards rot in standard then let YOU claim them, becuase you are scum.

You all know who you are, the ones that message me every, single, blood, god, damn, day... You see i have my div card listed in my public tab without a price and offer 6c below the price fixers, or you ARE the price fixer and think i wont check poe.trade. You think that buying up the entire stock of X near impossible to find uniques and relisting them for 300ex means i will stupidly trade you my 6L shavs/belly/kaoms heart becuas ei dont know the real value of items.

You think that im joking when i overprice an item, well i'm not, me pricing an item for 10ex isnt an invitation for you to offer 3c and then report me for refusing. News flash, if i price an item for 10ex and you try to be a scumbag and lowball me i will report you for spam, then tell you to piss off, again i would rather vendor the item then let YOU flip it.

I dont care if the item has been listed for 6 weeks, if it doesnt sell it doesnt sell, no skin off my teeth.

Now, if you are an hoenst trader, and you honestly do want my items and arent trying to be a scumbag, jsut haggle. Inquire about why i listed it so high, maybe it was an accident, maybe i didnt even mean to list those div cards, or maybe they get autolisted becuase i have 1 divination tab and i cant be bothered to unlist 600 cards every league. Try haggling by pointing out how long its been listed, or offer alternative currency, i hate flippers and hoarders and everything, but im not a horrible mean spirited person, i like to help players out, despite what people think of me, i even sold a clean 6L bow for 50c when the market price for 6L's were in the area of multiple ex, ive given free gear to new players, and even patiently haggled with players for item prices, i jsut dont feel any need to make a big deal about it on reddit or on the forums for attention.

Point is, if you are a flipper, hoarder, fixer, or jsut a general scumbag, dont message me during bestiary league. Just sit alone, in a corner, and rethink your life.

Best quality pointless drivel I've ever read.

I honestly can't tell if this is serious or not.

There is nothing wrong with flipping, hoarding, and following meta builds.

Scammers and price fixers in my opinion shouldn't have a place in this game but any system that involves humans will include those who will take advantage.

I love flippers, how else could I buy 5000 fusings at a time?

If someone tries to negotiate with you, let them and make a reasonable decision. If someone tries to scam you, ignore them.

every player is a hoarder...
just go to a "im a human being"- forum and hate everybody there

Horders, flipers and AH snipers are problem of bad economy structure and lack of limitations, same as diablo3 had. Its when people play the game of economy more than the game itself. Also totally stupid when its more rewarding than playing the game.
Its easy to counter, all they need to implement is to limit number of trades basad on something that require time to unlock.

In example your account can trade 5+1 per 5 levels for each char above 50 lvl in your account.
Basicaly normal account containing like 3 lvl 80 chars will have 23 trades/day possible. Thats alot and enough for like 90% of people here.
Where you cannot reliably flip with many accounts (slow down the process alot) and still give you plenty of trades if your account is real (so have lot of characters as this game intend you to have).

No normal person will trade more than like 20 times per day, and not even each day, but one day in a week when he cumulate some wealth to trade. The only people that would prevent such change are the flipers themself.

Currency flippers are the reason we can buy the currencies we need to do what we need to do. That's not a pernicious hoarding scheme, that's simply supplying a market demand.

Malignant trading practices are an issue, yes. THAT SAID, this isn't anything that doesn't happen IRL. Anywhere there's a market, there'll be people squeezing it for everything they can get because having More is generally better than having Less. Most players are resource-starved; every exalt drop is precious, every piece of good gear is a gift from the RNGods. Good Stuff can be hard to come by in this game, so it's natural that Ye Olde Regular Player will try and get as much as they reasonably can for their stuff.

Price fixers and scammers are assholes, yeah. Welcome to money. Flippers are just folks who understand the market better than you or I do, and who're callous enough to think nothing of ripping somebody off. We've all done it, scored that Sweet Deal well under market value off a guy we're fairly sure didn't quite know what he had. We've all been that Sweet Deal guy in turn, so it more or less evens out in the end.

Would it be nice if people just bought what they needed and avoided trying to manipulate the market to squeeze some extra currency out of the cracks? Yeah, of course. Is it going to happen? No. Get used to it and get on with your life.

"

herflik wrote:

Horders, flipers and AH snipers are problem of bad economy structure and lack of limitations, same as diablo3 had. Its when people play the game of economy more than the game itself. Also totally stupid when its more rewarding than playing the game.
Its easy to counter, all they need to implement is to limit number of trades basad on something that require time to unlock.

In example your account can trade 5+1 per 5 levels for each char above 50 lvl in your account.
Basicaly normal account containing like 3 lvl 80 chars will have 23 trades/day possible. Thats alot and enough for like 90% of people here.
Where you cannot reliably flip with many accounts (slow down the process alot) and still give you plenty of trades if your account is real (so have lot of characters as this game intend you to have).

No normal person will trade more than like 20 times per day, and not even each day, but one day in a week when he cumulate some wealth to trade. The only people that would prevent such change are the flipers themself.

I dont flip and dont trade much but this sounds terrible for many reasons. Im not willing to write very long post predicting lots of possible problems and analyzing how many people would be pissed up, rage, quit and why. Just posting some short assorted thoughts

people no longer selling cheap items; people trading by dropping items on ground; people not able to buy needed gear (I for example usually buy whole sets of gear during one session including some gems); people refusing to sell because they willing to buy things; people not being able to trade for maps (for chasing elder influence for example); etc etc etc

how fun would it be having to wait for another day to do what you want?

you remind me the EU bureaucracy. restrictions and regulations are their universal solutions to everything. they just see "the good" using tunnel vision, not realizing and not caring of all the consequences and collateral damage. in my language we call it "to commit the good"

i'll happily pay some extra for someone hwo has the time to gather my 5k chromes that i need for my next item.

"

Ludvator wrote:

I dont flip and dont trade much but this sounds terrible for many reasons. Im not willing to write very long post predicting lots of possible problems and analyzing how many people would be pissed up, rage, quit and why. Just posting some short assorted thoughts

people no longer selling cheap items; people trading by dropping items on ground; people not able to buy needed gear (I for example usually buy whole sets of gear during one session including some gems); people refusing to sell because they willing to buy things; people not being able to trade for maps (for chasing elder influence for example); etc etc etc

how fun would it be having to wait for another day to do what you want?

you remind me the EU bureaucracy. restrictions and regulations are their universal solutions to everything. they just see "the good" using tunnel vision, not realizing and not caring of all the consequences and collateral damage. in my language we call it "to commit the good"

This is a game and not real life, bajillions of rules and most important, natural physical limitations dont apply here comparing to real life.
Games are about limitations, when you play football the rule set of it make it football. Limitations are actualy what create the game.

I have played few games with limitation that I expressed and even when they had much lower numbers (ex. 5 trades per day). As a long term player (playing games for many years) didnt even had problem with it, maybe in 10 days of like 200 days of play in the most restricted one.

Its not something that can piss regular player off, since the proposition I used is based on your playtime. New players dont trade alot since they have no idea about economy of the game. Old players will have high limits with will not block their perfomance at all.

20 trades per day is alot, and we are talking here about like 50+ per day for old players. Thats limit that most people will not even reach in their gameplay time. Where flipers use automated services (bots) that trade once per few seconds. To point that out, its illegal to use (by ToS of any game I know). So a illegal fliper will be turned off in matters of 15 minutes by the system.

Problem of droping items on ground can be easly solved together with the problem that cause the game to not encourage party play at all. And thats due to outdated GGG philosophy copy pasted from diablo 2 with is "lets fight for the drops with own party!". Simply make everybody drop own items and only see own items. Even if you dont implement it, it will slow down trading process of flipers by ALOT. And that is the whole point.

Like every system, there is no perfect solution, everything got pluses and minuses.
Eliminating flipers also have negative impacts on the economy like someone pointed in threads before. The question is this matter is more off "whats the philosophy of the game that we want".
You say that it will piss off users to give restriction, I will tell you its good, since it will force them to think about their trades/moves. It will give more meaning to lower value items, becuase nobody will want to waste their precious trades for crap items. It will block flipers in large margin with will actualy show true "value" of items, especialy currency.

My philosophy of game is "reward for skill" and second "play the game as it was intended to do". Fliping maybe take some skill, but for many it encoruage for boting and mostly, its not totally what aRPG horror should be about.

Are flippers really that big of an issue? o_o

Like no srsly...is it really a problem?

I'm trying to figure out what the big hoary flaming deal is that everyone is getting so lit over but I just can't. What are the flipper's doing that's blowing up the game so badly that we all need to be limited to only two trades a day (three on Tuesday if you have a character at exactly level 88 from a league at least two leagues in the past who's wearing a Goldrim) as the better option?