frost bomb gives Lightning resistance penetration???

Frost bomb gives me Lightning penetration instead of cold penetration. What is up with that? Can you help?
Last bumped on Feb 20, 2018, 8:43:21 PM
Hello there =]
Are you playing with a non-english version of the game ?
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LOL. No, I am on the Texas server.
Wasn't talking about the gateway you use, but more if you play the game with english text & audio or not.
Anyway, i was unable to replicate the thing you are describing.
Frost bomb is supposed to apply -20% to cold resistance to nearby enemies (which is not the same as penetration by the way).
Can you tell where exactly do you see that lightning penetration information, or provide a screenshot ?
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Last edited by xhul on Feb 20, 2018, 7:07:21 PM
Thanks for the reply.

I play with English text and audio.

In my HO, I hit 'C' to bring up the 'character' screen. It is on the 'offence' tab by default. At the bottom of the list it says Cold Resistance Penetration.....38%. If I cast Frost Bomb (it is on my 'Q' hotkey), a new line at the bottom, below the Cold Resistance Penetration line discussed above, comes on that says Lightning Resistance Penetration.....25%. That goes away when Frost Bomb expires.

I do not know how to insert a screen shot.

Thanks
You have allocated the acendancy passive called Mastermind of Discord, which gives 25% lightning penetration each time you use a cold skill, for 10 seconds.
Cheers.
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Last edited by xhul on Feb 20, 2018, 7:27:27 PM
Great work. Thanks for the info.

Is there any way to see the enemy cold resistance level?

I need to understand the difference in cold resistance penetration and reduced cold resistance. Can you suggest where I could read up on that?

Tahnks again.
The wiki has information about that, but the descriptions are rather technical or via formulas that are not that easy to grasp. I'll copy a comment I wrote on reddit a while ago when someone asked the same:


Reduction is subtracted from the total (uncapped) resistance a creature has. Imagine it not being about monster but a player who has 115% fire resistance to be overcapped by 40% above the 75% limit. In this case a curse such as flammability (taking a -25% value) lowers that 115% to 90%, which means the enemy is still above his 75% mark and effectively has full 75% fire resistance.

Penetration is subtracted from the effective resistance value. Taking the above example, it means it does not care how much a creature is overcapped. Whether you have 115% or 80%, your effective resistance is 75% (except when you have special +max resist effects) and penetration uses that 75% value. If you have 10% penetration, the enemy has effectively only 65% resists and he can't counteract by stacking more resistances.

If the enemy in question is not over the 75% resistance mark (or whatever number your max resistance is) the effects become equal. If you have only say 40% resistance, then that is your uncapped and effective resistance, so reduction and penetration use that value.

It is worth noting that in most cases monsters do not have more than 75% resistances, they usually have something like 0-30% against certain elements and might get more due to map mods. This means that practically reduction and penetration simply stack and bring identical DPS gain.
Your discussion is very helpful. I found the 'Resistance Penetration' page in the POE wiki and am working through the formulas.

I am wondering if there is a way to verify that the reduced elemental resistance from Frost Bomb is taking place, other than blowing the shit out of them, that is. LOL
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c_dificil wrote:
Great work. Thanks for the info.

Is there any way to see the enemy cold resistance level?


Not possible, sorry.

"
I need to understand the difference in cold resistance penetration and reduced cold resistance. Can you suggest where I could read up on that?


"Reduced resistance" is an effect that is applied to a creature (monster, player, minion, etc.) Therefore any damage done to this creature will benefit from this effect. It reduces the monster's base resistance by the given value.

This reduction is applied before the resistance cap (75% by default). Therefore a player with 110% uncapped fire resistance affected by level 6 Flammability (-30% fire resistance) will now have 80% fire resist, which gets capped to 75%. Thus stacking resistances beyond the cap is a good way to counteract resistance reducing effects such as curses.

To my knowledge, however, no monsters have overcapped resistances; so this is not something you have to worry about on the offensive side of things. (With a possible exception of grandmasters in the Hall of the Grandmasters unique map.)



In contrast, "resistance penetration" is an effect that is applied to a skill, even more specifically to a hit of a skill. Only hits which are affected by the penetration modifier benefit from it. For example, if you have a Fireball linked with Fire Penetration support; and a Flameblast without this link, only the damage of Fireballs will be affected. (Even if an enemy becomes ignited by the Fireball, the penetration effect does not apply to any other skill.)

This also means that penetration works specifically for hits; and thus anything that is not a hit can not benefit from penetration. This includes Damage over Time (such as Righteous Fire or Scorching Ray); but also reflected damage which does not benefit from on-hit effects.

Resistance penetration means that the hit treats the target's effective resistance as being the specified value lower than it actually is. This is applied after resistance reductions and the cap. Thus if an enemy has 90% fire resistance (capped to 75%), and your skill penetrates 10% fire resistance, the enemy will be treated as having 65% resistance against that hit.

The only monster that can penetrate your resistances (again up to my knowledge) is Atziri; therefore with that exception you do not have to worry about protecting yourself against this effect.



Both of the above effects stack, and can even reduce the enemy's effective resistance below 0%. There is no lower cap on the effective resistance, as long as you can stack reduced resistance and penetration you can get the enemy's resists as deep into the negatives as you want.



There is a third, related modifier called "damage ignores resistances", available on the Inquisitor's Inevitable Judgement ascendancy passive. This effect simply treats the enemy's resistance as always being 0. Thus the effects of any reduction/penetration modifiers are ignored.



"
c_dificil wrote:
I am wondering if there is a way to verify that the reduced elemental resistance from Frost Bomb is taking place, other than blowing the shit out of them, that is. LOL


A monster will show a "Vulnerable to (element)" or "Resists (element)" line under its name in the top center of your screen whenever its resistance to that element is negative or positive. Therefore if the monster's initial cold resistance was zero (which is the case for a vast majority of normal monsters), it will show "Vulnerable to Cold" when affected by a resistance lowering modifier.

Note however that if a monster has a positive resistance to an element, and you lower that resistance, but not enough to bring it below zero; it will still show the "Resists (element)" line. Your resistance lowering modifier is still being applied, it is just not strong enough to flip the enemy from positive resistance to negative. There is no visual indication that the effect works in this case.
Last edited by Abdiel_Kavash on Feb 20, 2018, 8:20:15 PM

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