State of Cyclone

I tried starforge cyclone, but it felt meh, so I switched to heavy strike + ancestral call + impact. It actually feels better, although still shit compared to projectiles.

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Bleu42 wrote:

Real quick because I'm confused. So far you've said you've 'crushed the entire game", and "obliterated the entire game" while talking about cyclone.

So uh... what's the problem? Why are you whining about a skill when you also describe the same skill with 'crush' and 'obliterate'?

Because it's relative. You can do whatever you want with Cyclone, you can map, you can kill a boss here and there too. No problem so far. But here's the problem- other skills do all it better, faster and cheaper. No matter how much you invest in Cyclone, you'll end up with shit build.

You got a Starforge of Disfavor? Cool. EK with Brightbeak is 10x faster. You bought some mirrored axe from ahfack. Cool. EK with Brightbeak is still 10x faster. You now invested into a full set of mirrored gear. Congratulations, you have a mirrored item in every slot. EK with Brightbeak is still 10x faster.

And the punchline? Cyclone is actually one of the better melee skills. GGG sees EK, Tornado, wanders and every projectile skill oneshot the entire screen, they think "HOLY SHIT WE NEED TO NERF CYCLONE". They see GC mines oneshot every boss in the game, they think "HOLY SHIT WE NEED TO NERF CYCLONE, LETS NERF THE SHITTY SUNDER TOO WHILE WE'RE AT IT AND BUFF GC MINES". Balance is a joke, they really have no clue what they're doing.

WHAT'S DEH PROBLEM EH

God that triggered me.

The fuck dude.

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Jgizle wrote:

For 1, I am changing stuff on my abyss character like every hr testing different things, not actually building it any specific way by following a guide some one else made, like a pleb who can't use their brain. I am switching from different ways of making my current character stronger over time. For a shit build I gained over 30k dps between last night and today. I needed the mana regen for sustain so I got Rightous Decree, which I now probably no longer need. No Big Deal. Light of divinity is just a pathing node to save on skill points. Builds should be ever changing depending on what you need at the time.

2. Only "increased minion damage" works with scourge. I'd have you know there are few ways of getting that viably as a marauder, and I am happy with what I got now just between scourge and

3. 80% Phys to lightning is already good enough convert. Tell me a good way to make that full convert without actually making the build worse.

4. All my standard cyclone characters can red map just fine. So I would say you don't know what makes a cyclone build viable or not. Just because I don't have mirror worthy gear doesn't mean my builds suck. Maybe I don't have as much time as others to farm all day for upgrades.

5. The state of my characters has nothing to do with whether or not cyclone needs to be buffed or not. Cyclone is a medicore skill that I play because I enjoyed playing Whirlwind Barbarians in Diablo 3 and want to emulate that experience. When other high tier skills are created other skills should be buffed to be equally as viable in a competitive manor. Goodluck being competitive with a cyclone build. You will never see 1st shaper or elder kills, 1st level 100, ect ect as a cyclone build ever. At the vary least they should balance similar gem tag skills around one another so all movement + damage based skills are on similar playing fields. Right now you can pull off a better cyclone with vortex and shield charge.

6. Using Hatred on a almost pure lightning scaling character is retarded. It should be quite obvious Wrath is the most superior option. But w/e. My character wasn't ele scaling this whole time anyways.

88k DPS before scourge buff on hit, I'd say that is pretty solid.

1. You needed Righteous Decree to sustain mana? Really? You are actually claiming that after playing Cyclone before? One mana leech jewel should solve all your mana problems on Cyclone, instead of you went for the fascinating increased mana regen while moving jewel which does not solve anything because you dont have any to begin with. But its fine man, waste 2 slots on mana flasks instead of having real ones.

2. So whos fault it is for doing the fascinating Scourge Marauder Cyclone idea when marauder does not have easy access to minion damage? Zero thought put into character beforehand.

3. Use Path of Building for once in your life. ALL your gems in cyclone links are shit. ALL OF THEM, every single gem that you linked with cyclone can be replaced for a better one including Phys to Light, i didnt even need to open your profile to see that at first glance.

4. I casually made a lvl 95 cyclone side character which has 300k dps inc aoe and clears vaults in 1.30 with bisco. Thats why i can claim with utter certainty with your characters are horribly optimized and cyclone is fine, you are just a bad crybaby.

5. Your examples are a complete joke, cyclone is a movement clear skill which offers you a relaxing gameplay one of shotting everything while moving through them. Those chill skills like RF or Cyclone should never and will never compete with skills which actually require you to do something. Its a skill that good for everything, its better than BF for mapping and better than KB for boss killing, why should it ever excel them in what they do best? You dont even think about going for top1s when going Cyclone, you do it for relaxing gameplay. Its fine as it is you just suck at making characters.

6. Before today when you gained extra levels Hatred was superior to Wrath you clown, do you know how i know that? Because Path of Building exists.

People like you littering the discussion boards with your garbage opinions on how skills or game should be balanced while you dont understand even basics like using PoB are probably the worst part of this game. Your character is using leveling rings, leveling jewels, leveling amulet, leveling belt and leveling skill tree and for some reason you think its game's fault that your build is shit. You dont even have Atziri flask which is like what, 2c? You are unable to clear fast enough on ANY of your cyclones to drop blood magic from your endgame cyclone setup, its a complete joke, please tell me again how good you are at making cyclone characters since beta.

Nice lvl 30 flask on lvl 83 character btw, sure complements your build nicely in maps. Also your mana flask inc movespeed does not stack with Quicksilver and simply does not work, use Silver, mr since beta player.

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IMBrewmaster wrote:

1. You needed Righteous Decree to sustain mana? Really? You are actually claiming that after playing Cyclone before? One mana leech jewel should solve all your mana problems on Cyclone, instead of you went for the fascinating increased mana regen while moving jewel which does not solve anything because you dont have any to begin with. But its fine man, waste 2 slots on mana flasks instead of having real ones.

2. So whos fault it is for doing the fascinating Scourge Marauder Cyclone idea when marauder does not have easy access to minion damage? Zero thought put into character beforehand.

3. Use Path of Building for once in your life. ALL your gems in cyclone links are shit. ALL OF THEM, every single gem that you linked with cyclone can be replaced for a better one including Phys to Light, i didnt even need to open your profile to see that at first glance.

4. I casually made a lvl 95 cyclone side character which has 300k dps inc aoe and clears vaults in 1.30 with bisco. Thats why i can claim with utter certainty with your characters are horribly optimized and cyclone is fine, you are just a bad crybaby.

5. Your examples are a complete joke, cyclone is a movement clear skill which offers you a relaxing gameplay one of shotting everything while moving through them. Those chill skills like RF or Cyclone should never and will never compete with skills which actually require you to do something. Its a skill that good for everything, its better than BF for mapping and better than KB for boss killing, why should it ever excel them in what they do best? You dont even think about going for top1s when going Cyclone, you do it for relaxing gameplay. Its fine as it is you just suck at making characters.

6. Before today when you gained extra levels Hatred was superior to Wrath you clown, do you know how i know that? Because Path of Building exists.

People like you littering the discussion boards with your garbage opinions on how skills or game should be balanced while you dont understand even basics like using PoB are probably the worst part of this game. Your character is using leveling rings, leveling jewels, leveling amulet, leveling belt and leveling skill tree and for some reason you think its game's fault that your build is shit. You dont even have Atziri flask which is like what, 2c? You are unable to clear fast enough on ANY of your cyclones to drop blood magic from your endgame cyclone setup, its a complete joke, please tell me again how good you are at making cyclone characters since beta.

Nice lvl 30 flask on lvl 83 character btw, sure complements your build nicely in maps. Also your mana flask inc movespeed does not stack with Quicksilver and simply does not work, use Silver, mr since beta player.

1. Nah 1 mana leech jewel does not solve all my problems, neighter does mana leech from my ascendancy + mana regen while moving or mana leech from warlords mark. In fact using a quicksilver flask results in depleting all my mana on bosses, meaning I need other sources of mana. BTW I've only used mana flasks and quicksilvers until now, hence why I have not changed any of them. If my survivability depended on it I would change them but thats not the case.

2. There are actually several scourge marauder cyclone builds. You are not required to get any more minion damage than I currently have already. In fact I have more minion damage than other builds have. So saying there is no thought behind a claw cyclone build that is really only using scourge as a dps increase is laughable. You are suggesting that a witch could some how make a viable cyclone build with scourge simply because they have a little but more increased minion damage. Nah, because you would have tons of wasted stats, certainly not enough HP, and just meeting the gem level requirements, not so easy for a witch.

3. You see some one told me to use POB but I prefer to actually test stuff myself. That being said I downloaded POB just to show you my current dmg which is not even fully optimized yet since you know, you can't get all the gear you want when ever you want. What would be the value of using Phys to lightning on low phys weapons? You see out of my current 5 links I am using the best 5 link possible, none of which Physical to Lightning yields a DPS increase which makes since. How can an increased damage gem be better than more multipliers? Since I also already have 80% physical to lightning that makes the physical to lightning support gem even worse. I mean if you are going to make a suggestion at least double check you know what you are talking about. If you forgot what that 5 link was its Cyclone - Elemental Focus - Damage on Full Life - Lightning Penetration - Elemental Damage With Attacks.

4. So you can make a pure phys Starforge cyclone character and stick all more multipliers for phys damage together. Cool. Not impressive or anything. Trying to justify being better at making characters by DPS comparisons is a joke. I mean all your DMG comes from your sword which has high phys. I mean your so good you cant even get a higher phys 2h sword so you can add ele damage and get more dps. We all know starforge doesn't got nothing on Atziri's Disfavour.

5. Weird which part of shield charge requires you to do something? As far as I am aware you just hold right click and kill half a screen or more of enemies instantly and keep going? Maybe I am missing some other mechanic there? I mean sure cyclone can move super slow through the enemies your attacking but hey at least you can move at all. But I mean that time spent swirling in a circle is time wasted compared to right click to boss and done in 2 - 3 minutes max depending on boss. Clearly you don't understand the argument being made here. No 1 said cyclone sucks, or cyclone is not viable. I did however say it needs a buff since there are superior skills with the exact same functionality and gem tags.

6. Gaining levels changes the effectiveness of wrath vs hatred? Thats a joke. My weapons did not change, and thus nothing would have changed. If you are using low phys weapons you scale them via elemental dmg and flat ele dmg on jewels to make them viable. Its why a shit weapon like Mortem Morsu can actually become viable. Taking a low phys weapon and converting some of its dmg to an element is a poor way to scale dmg at all. That is why wrath regardless of what you thought, was always the superior choice. It adds flat lightning damage and then increases lightning damage on top of that. Considering I got almost 10k flat lightning damage thats a huge difference. Finally since 80% of my phys is already being converted to lightning hatred would only convert the remaining 20% to cold, which would then be entirely useless to me as why would I want cold damage in a build where I am trying to shock. Just so that I am pure elemental damage, nope.

Stick to your other characters. Leveling a character to 95+ doesn't mean you actually know how your build works. Critizing people for trying to make different builds instead of following cookie cutter builds is low. Its not about the destination, it is about the journey. The journey each persons characters make will differ.

A counterpoint without being asinine back?!!

<grabs the popcorn>

Apart from the current OP Lightpoacher EK crap meta I have rarely seen anyone clearing much faster than Alkaizer on his cylcone build.

So I really don't know what the fuck everyone is talking about.
As one guy has already mentioned in the thread: If you cylcone more than 20% of your time in a map then you are doing it wrong and you don't get how to use it properly. Leap slam, min distance cylcone, leap slam.
Who the fuck calls that slow, get some proper IAS and your leap slam takes you through the entire map in less than 30 seconds, together with always-active onslaught, etc.
Literally every other melee skill is slower right now.

Also OP's build is so fucking crap and the guy calling him out on it is tearing him a whole dimension of a new asshole, it's fucking hilarious.

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Player089 wrote:

Apart from the current OP Lightpoacher EK crap meta I have rarely seen anyone clearing much faster than Alkaizer on his cylcone build.

Do you have some links of him quickly clearing end game content like T15,T16, shaper?

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Nephalim wrote:

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Player089 wrote:

Apart from the current OP Lightpoacher EK crap meta I have rarely seen anyone clearing much faster than Alkaizer on his cylcone build.

Do you have some links of him quickly clearing end game content like T15,T16, shaper?

Apart from his demonstration video on his YouTube channel, no. Watch his VODs on twitch, should contain enough of the gameplay that took his cycloner to 100.
Obviously cyclone is meh for killing shaper and other tanky bosses, clearly not the intent of the skill. But let's not act like EK LP is better at that - it's actually a lot worse.
A cyclone built made to kill bosses is probably pretty decent at it.

The skill really is far from being bad.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

only if u compare a cyclone build that has done everything it can to boost its area vs a flurry build that hasnt.

Nah man, you don't need anything outside Amplify on the tree and IAOE in your links. The skill does a ton of damage already so for mapping, you explode trash.

Cyclone is king because it's a movement skill. No melee skill can top it because every other one has to stand still to attack. That's why Cyclone is king for melee when it comes to pretty much all content (single or aoe). You just never stop moving.

I dont agree because when u say stand still, the aoe other melee skills can get with that same aoe investment is so much more than cyclone that when you add their shield charge moving them far quicker between packs I dont think cyclones moment makes up for it.

You say its kind for melee, and you only need aoe on your tree and aoe in your gem links. You dont need any gem or node to help your clear on a whole bunch of other melee skills. I literally couldnt even play cyclone without those things you mentioned + playing a tight corridor map, its so bad I cant even bring myself to play it because its painfully shit at clearing maps. Yet theres a whole bunch of other melee skills I can play without any of those things, without needing any loss of dps gems or taking any passives that boost their pack coverage.