State of Cyclone

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Completed 5 ChallengesJgizle wrote:
I have been playing cyclone builds exclusively since their release in 0.10.3.


Ok, so let me start by telling you that cyclone still is the best melee skill since when it was released. Yes, all the other melee skills are way worse
[THE KARUI WAY PROJECT]
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Completed 5 ChallengesJgizle wrote:

According to POB one of my standard cycloners only gets a few k bleed with those gloves.

You only need "a few k" (and the "more damage while moving") to finish off stranglers that somehow survived your initial barrage of whirling attacks.
It's not like white monster health points scale to the millions in PoE.

Bleeding is very enjoyable on cycloners just for this reason: Some monsters just die while following you, you don't have to turn around to hit them again.
It's not about the DpS, it's about QoL.
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Player089 wrote:
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Completed 5 ChallengesJgizle wrote:

Not true, test it yourself.


According to the wiki it is the way I said it.
But I am open to asking this in the mechanical questions thread and have someone that actually saw the underlying code respond to it.

I'm not for "feeling" the difference by "testing" it - without actual numbers it's just too subjective.


Movement speed reduces the time it takes to reactive the skill. The faster you move the sooner you can reactivate the skill again. With high movement speed and high attack speed while keeping the cursor right next to your character, on a single target you can get more DPS than listed. You can easily test this by fighting a large hp boss with and without using high movement speed from gear, flasks, onslaught, blood rage, ect. You might do less dmg for the first hit of each activation but that doesn't matter.
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Player089 wrote:

Literally every skill out there scales with items. There is absolutely nothing wrong about cylcone scaling with an extremly cheap unique item.



all phys melee skills scale with those gloves, and yet they only become this thing with cyclone, because cyclone is the only used melee skill thats so shit it needs them.


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Player089 wrote:

Show us the footage of said HC play then. I want so see how it's that much faster.
I don't doubt it for frost blades - which is, however, absolute garbage single target.



if uve ever played a sunder build u should know. Frost blades garbage single target, ok well cyclone isnt actually that much better, which is my whole problem with it. When he was a killer single target it didnt matter than it was a bad clearer without going ham on every possible aoe scaling going. cyclones as a single target is eclipsed by good single target melee skills like flurry and molten strike.



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Player089 wrote:

?? Reave is absolute garbage without aoe scaling, what are you even talking about??



well its significantly better than cyclone without aoe scaling.


If I went slayer with reave and then used an inc aoe gem and got amplify and used the gloves would it be an awful lot better at clearing than it is by default? Yes absolutely. Do I need to do any of those things to simply play reave and have it feel good enough? No, I can just vaal reave and go without being tied to any ascendacy, any particular passive location, any item or any dps reducing gem. What happens if I just play default cyclone without any of these things? Its so terrible that by the end of 1 map I give up and switch to something else like earthquake, its unplayable, despite being my favourite skill in terms of loving the spinning moving thing of it its so bad I cant even bring myself to play it because I can get the same single target ability out of a skill thats 100% more effective at killing packs in a variety of maps.


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Player089 wrote:


How is it an AoE-ascendancy? That's absolutely not why people play slayer dude. You play it with a single, mediocre AoE-node, wow.
Slayer is really good this league, that's why people play it. Not because they need it to scale cylcones AoE.
Then you mention a 75/75 gladiator - so what? Slayer is extremely tanky, can easily compete here. And again, that decision has nothing to do with cyclone.

Yes, cylcone is pretty garbage in completely open maps. Which are garabage by themselves, so I dont see what that is relevant at all.



its an ascendancy that gives aoe.

slayer is as tanky as a 75/75 block gladiator who can use an aegis, surrender or elder/shaper shield? seriously? come on mate.

cyclone is garbage in open maps, yes, and theres a ton of open maps. A skills power shouldnt assume u play one shaped map thats great for that skill, its absolutely relevant. Whats irrelevant is talking about how good cyclone is purely from the perspective of playing a tight corridor map.

Cyclone without aoe scaling is significantly worse than a skill you said is garbage without aoe scaling, and youre saying here its garbage in probably over 50% of maps. Yes, this is the problem with cyclone, and my point is that when it had killer single target damage none of that stuff mattered because it did something really well and people enjoyed that feeling of devastating power against a single monster and the tactile nature of being able to short spam it.


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Completed 5 ChallengesJgizle wrote:

Movement speed reduces the time it takes to reactive the skill. The faster you move the sooner you can reactivate the skill again. With high movement speed and high attack speed while keeping the cursor right next to your character, on a single target you can get more DPS than listed. You can easily test this by fighting a large hp boss with and without using high movement speed from gear, flasks, onslaught, blood rage, ect. You might do less dmg for the first hit of each activation but that doesn't matter.


Reactivating the skill does not do anything? The only scenario where it would increase your DPS is if you managed to reactivate it faster than your individual hits come out.
And since the first hit is also reduced by 50% you would need to reactive even faster.

I can guarantee you that you CANNOT re-activate the skill faster than you hit with it and if you did it would probably cost you around 500 mana per second.

Once channeling, the skill always attacks at the same pace, so reactivating it does not do anything. It just changes the direction in which you are going.
Last edited by Player089 on Jan 12, 2018, 7:46:57 AM
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Player089 wrote:
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Completed 5 ChallengesJgizle wrote:

Movement speed reduces the time it takes to reactive the skill. The faster you move the sooner you can reactivate the skill again. With high movement speed and high attack speed while keeping the cursor right next to your character, on a single target you can get more DPS than listed. You can easily test this by fighting a large hp boss with and without using high movement speed from gear, flasks, onslaught, blood rage, ect. You might do less dmg for the first hit of each activation but that doesn't matter.


Reactivating the skill does not do anything? The only scenario where it would increase your DPS is if you managed to reactivate it faster than your individual hits come out.
And since the first hit is also reduced by 50% you would need to reactive even faster.

I can guarantee you that you CANNOT re-activate the skill faster than you hit with it and if you did it would probably cost you around 500 mana per second.

Once channeling, the skill always attacks at the same pace, so reactivating it does not do anything. It just changes the direction in which you are going.


Thats not what data shows. Many people have the same opinion as me, and I notice an increase in the rate at which boss or tanky rares hp decreases when I activate a quicksilver flask.

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Some people in here seem to misunderstand how cyclone works exactly. Having more movementspeed does not hurt you in any way in terms of raw damage. The "initial hit" was nerfed by 50%, yes but that only applies to the activation of the skill, not the actual first spin.
Having more movementspeed activates the skill more often, resulting is more DPS. Having more attackspeed also increases your DPS. Find a balance where you can whirl through packs and kill them in one go, not having to return.
Also take AoE into consideration. More AoE = Mobs are getting hit for "longer" while spinning through them.
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Last edited by Jgizle on Jan 12, 2018, 8:34:48 PM
https://pastebin.com/JcgiUmEm Here's my current cycloner.

Idk what OP is on about but I used your cookie cutter slayer cyclone build. When I put in AOE support i clear everything in one spin with out thinking. i'm getting around 804k dps with conc effect so bosses are no problem. Cyclone doesn't feel clunky or slow either.. Unless of course you're trying to spin through the whole map and not leap slam.
Gotta grind em all.
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ShineOut wrote:
https://pastebin.com/JcgiUmEm Here's my current cycloner.

Idk what OP is on about but I used your cookie cutter slayer cyclone build. When I put in AOE support i clear everything in one spin with out thinking. i'm getting around 804k dps with conc effect so bosses are no problem. Cyclone doesn't feel clunky or slow either.. Unless of course you're trying to spin through the whole map and not leap slam.
how to use your link. I see only coded program or what the heck is it.
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Kastmar wrote:
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ShineOut wrote:
https://pastebin.com/JcgiUmEm Here's my current cycloner.

Idk what OP is on about but I used your cookie cutter slayer cyclone build. When I put in AOE support i clear everything in one spin with out thinking. i'm getting around 804k dps with conc effect so bosses are no problem. Cyclone doesn't feel clunky or slow either.. Unless of course you're trying to spin through the whole map and not leap slam.
how to use your link. I see only coded program or what the heck is it.


Path of Building uses that loadout.
1K Pretzel Eating Team.

https://www.twitch.tv/sarangpoe

Fake Temp League Elitists LUL
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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:
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Kastmar wrote:
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ShineOut wrote:
https://pastebin.com/JcgiUmEm Here's my current cycloner.

Idk what OP is on about but I used your cookie cutter slayer cyclone build. When I put in AOE support i clear everything in one spin with out thinking. i'm getting around 804k dps with conc effect so bosses are no problem. Cyclone doesn't feel clunky or slow either.. Unless of course you're trying to spin through the whole map and not leap slam.
how to use your link. I see only coded program or what the heck is it.


Path of Building uses that loadout.
got it thanks.

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