Who is balancing this game? Lmao

EQ? that joke of a skill? with over double the single target damage than next best thing AND greatest AOE melee ever seen?

it had at least a drawback (restrictions + that weird attack speed interaction) but the numbers were DUMB. ground slam is not bad skill, but it couldnt compete with EQ no matter what - it just dealt half the damage

adding stuff that is straight DOUBLE or TRIPPLE damage compared to old stuff is not adding 'options'. it is removing everything else

EQ is still great option. but you know what? Sunder is just better numbers wise and works with multistrike. so it replaces EQ, Ground Slam and all the 'single target'

Sunder on a 4Link is stronger than EQ on a 5Link and Double Strike on a 7Link (if that is a thing)

all these nice gloves/helmets with linked supports make that into 5Link - esp the Wyrmsign with Conc Effect that gives Sunder extra damage without any real penalty..

someone really made a typo with Sunder

"

vio wrote:

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

And before Earthquake, there was.... Nothing.

reave and vaal reave?

For two-handers? LMAO!

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

vio wrote:

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

And before Earthquake, there was.... Nothing.

reave and vaal reave?

For two-handers? LMAO!

somebody nerfed my context skills today, sorry.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

vio wrote:

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

And before Earthquake, there was.... Nothing.

reave and vaal reave?

For two-handers? LMAO!

You don't use two-handed claws? :P

I think a lot of people here like sid and vio just want to disagree with you just on the premise of disagreeing, not because they actually believe in or have tried anything that they're saying

P.S. This is why SID always keeps his profile PRIVATE because he wants to hide the truth from people since we all know if you looked at his chars it would PROB prove that he's BS'ing all the time

Your mistake is trying to compare sunder with other melee skills. If you compare sunder to other ranged skills out there, then it's pretty mediocre.

Some helm enchants for proj skills should be looked at.

I have a lvl-88 Assassin in Standard that I resurrected from the depredations of patch 3.0. He dual-wields Death's Hand and Rive, and uses Frost Blades for max melee range, along with Ground Slam to proc Power and Endu charges via melee stun. The tooltip says Ground Slam does 4100 dps at 0.44 APS.

If I swap in Sunder, damage is upped 25% to 5100 dps, but attack speed drops 20%, down to 0.52 APS.

For this build, however, GS reduces enemy stun threshold by 75%, compared to only 50% with Sunder. Ground Slam also has a much wider arc. That gives Ground Slam an edge over Sunder, but overall, they're pretty comparable.

"

RogueMage wrote:

I have a lvl-88 Assassin in Standard that I resurrected from the depredations of patch 3.0. He dual-wields Death's Hand and Rive, and uses Frost Blades for max melee range, along with Ground Slam to proc Power and Endu charges via melee stun. The tooltip says Ground Slam does 4100 dps at 0.44 APS.

If I swap in Sunder, damage is upped 25% to 5100 dps, but attack speed drops 20%, down to 0.52 APS.

For this build, however, GS reduces enemy stun threshold by 75%, compared to only 50% with Sunder. Ground Slam also has a much wider arc. That gives Ground Slam an edge over Sunder, but overall, they're pretty comparable.

Why would you use another skill just to get endurance charges, when you have Enduring Cry?

There are few reasons why Sunder is so much better:

1. Base DPS. It's higher than the one for GS, Sweep, etc. But base DPS alone wont give you "huge" advantage.
2. "Aftershock" waves. Each enemy hit by Sunder emits a circular wave, that hits all enemies around him, dealing 40% of base skill's damage. With that "bonus", against packs, Sunder deals much higher damage that tooltip says (sometimes, 2 times higher or even more).
3. Sunder is unaffected by AoE reductions (at least, not the "main" wave), so you can easily put "Concentrated Effect" into it for 55% more damage. For other skills, you'll have to deal with reduced AoE/range, or use weaker gems.
4. Bleed. High per-hit damage of Sunder synergizes well with Bleed mechanics, that improves DPS against a boss. When i calculate DPS VS boss, i ALWAYs take into account full stacked bleed. And with Bleed, Sunder is far ahead.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

RogueMage wrote:

I have a lvl-88 Assassin in Standard that I resurrected from the depredations of patch 3.0. He dual-wields Death's Hand and Rive, and uses Frost Blades for max melee range, along with Ground Slam to proc Power and Endu charges via melee stun.

Why would you use another skill just to get endurance charges, when you have Enduring Cry?

Because I'd rather stay on the attack 100% of the time, rather than pause again and again to cast a transient Warcry. And without stuns, I'd miss out on Power charges from Death's Hand.

Your other points are just min-maxing arguments, not strategic issues. Sunder's aftershocks do only 40% as much damage, so they won't stun any additional foes. In 3.0, Bleed is only a secondary damage source, and with Rive, it gets triggered constantly (85% chance), so the big crits dominate Bleed damage soon enough. And tactically, I'd rather have Ground Slam's broad arc than Sundar's narrow beam, even with the broken Conc exploit.

fun thing is: most likely sunder without power charges does more damage than ground slam with them. the base damage values are that different

and enduring cry - the same story: you save half a second by not casting it but you save a lot more dealing twice the damage using 'better skill'

minor imbalances are unavoidable but there are cases like sunder where it is just obscene and makes other options pointless

to make this point clear: Ground Slam deals '120%' damage, Sunder deals '182%' (on main wave, 40% of that for the blasts) AND (frequently overlooked) blasts CANNOT MISS!

is there anyone who thinks these are comparable? sure, with Tornado Shot maybe - yet another 'lets make a skill thrice as good as other options and see what happens'

Some "balance" issues are definetely quetionable. Using Path of Building (which we assume for the most part is accurate), seems like i can peak my Shaper single target DPS at 10.5 Million fully buffed with Blade Flury. Then i tried for science how much could have i peak my DPS with Dual Strike, if i had 2 Loath Banes(mirrored daggers), and i could not get it higher than 6-7 million. LMAO, a ranged AoE skill using one weapons did 50% more single target damage than a dedicated dual weilding, single target, namelocking skill, even on a theoritical character that went as far as to use 2 mirrored daggers. Man it is BEYOND REDICULOUS.

Now i am not advocating ANY nerf to skills from melee weapons because melee vs ranged has always been the most pressing issue, but it is clear that some melee skills, especially single target ones need MASSIVE buffs. Like MASSIVE. For instance I do not think that ANYTHING should come close, in terms of single target DPS, in this game to Dual Strike with 2 mirrored weapons. I mean, come on....