Life is technically better than ES
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I'd say Life is better (the best way to observe this is while leveling a character in the Acts), but ES builds are better because Life eventually stops getting the values they need to properly sustain endgame progression while ES more than makes up for its drawbacks and grows exponentially.
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Point for point, without investment into keynodes of any kind, life is technically superior to ES in every aspect. I am pretty certain rory meant that, and not the state of life vs es in the game.
Obviously, thats a very silly academic exercise, because you are always going to have some keynodes and ES is going to have more buffer than life. | |
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The issue with the "point for point" argument is that Life can never get the same values (or even close) that ES can get
Your shitty Evasion Chest that you no longer want to wear can get ~100 life, give or take A terribly rolled ES chest can 500 ES easily Mainly problem is that a secondary defense, which is what armour or evasion basically is & what ES was intended to be pretty much, has the ability to replace life values straight up Fake Temp League Elitists LUL
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I dont think ES and Life are that far away from each other in the endgame.
Off course you have app. double the "life" with ES then with life, but I think that way was intended from the beginning. For me the "OP ES" thing rly started with things like VaalPact and Vessel of Vinktar on ES. Look at many of the high ES builds that dont have "instant leech". Many of them, if you are not careful can get in big troubles fast, espacialy in high density maps or in breaches, etc. I honestly think you could bring "Life" and "ES" on par for most builds and people, if you only would allow VAAL PACT for LIFE. All GGG would have to do is bring in a line like "does not work for energy shield" on vaal pact, and in a heartbeat many players will get in trouble playing ES builds. That will not destroy the ES Builds nowadays, because you still will not get oneshot, but you will not be able to facetank all the game has to offer. You will be forced to move and get some ES back, and that should be the way how you have to play ES characters. No offense - its all only IMHO ;-) | |
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I think I picked up just about every single lifenode on the way from shadow to Duelist, including the closest life/ES wheel for +170% life. Sitting at 4K at lvl 80. Got 40-100 base life on all gear but 1 amulet and the weapon. Got 100 life on shield and chest, 75 on the helm, etc., 10K armour. Im so squishy I use spectral throw even though I wanted to go with some real melee skill, and still I feel like getting enfeeble on blasphemy to not get instagibbed by some blue pack of whatever. But hey, the game is tuned to the ease of getting 12K hitpoints with CI. Give me that +20% life craft on a ring that ES has please.
Last edited by Riborg on Apr 29, 2017, 11:42:48 AM
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" I dont know what build you play, and off course, level 80 is not rly a finished char, but all life-based builds I played in the last app. 18 months do at least get arround 5,5k life at lvl 90. App. 6k if you invest a little bit more and go for more life nodes. But yeah, thats nothing against 10k+ ES, but if you wouldn't have the "instant leech" with ES, then all would be in a good perspective. Life could facetank with vaalpact, but not the rly big hits. ES could take the big hits, but could not facetank. I think that would be a good solution. | |
" 4k life is pretty low. i have 7k on my last two charachters. try to get some more life from the tree. aim for 200% or more. get life on jewels if you can. get bandit +40 life on normal. | |
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Would you rather have 1 life and 0 ES or 0 life and 1 ES? Check mate.
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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" this is correct. There is some ES regen builds I've seen that can tank end game but they have wicked ward and like pushing 30K ES. In otherwords expensive mirror like gear and few and far between. By in large all this ES OP stuff started with vinks and pathfinder to lessor extent. It allows "cheap" gear to tank everything so long and you can leech out of the first hit before subsequent hits come. For vinks and especially PF this is trivial to do. They should just delete that flask from game. See how well all these builds will do with 2% LL gem and/or warlords on blas. Not only will one do less DPS because no DPS LL gem is occupying a socket and or warlords aura running instead of a DPS aura the leech amount will be significantly less base (2-4%) some dodging/movment out of DOT will have to occur even with VP. SO before screwing with VP I'd like to see vinks just disappear. Git R Dun!
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As long as resists cap out, and the means of raising those caps are few and far between, we're going to keep seeing ES as king: you simply can't scale mitigation vs spells very easily, so huge pool becomes king.
If resists scaled the way armour/evasion do, and weren't so trivial to make 'maxed out' we wouldn't have this problem, or would be a lot closer to being able to balance around it, at least. Yes, there are issues with leech, vaal pact, and the various methods of recharge/regen/flasks, or reliance on uniques like kaom's heart that restrict your build's sockets just to eke out a level of competitiveness etc to take into account, but the old diablo2-style resist cap is the big culprit here, in my opinion. Life+mitigation builds work fine, until you start trying to mitigate spell damage, and then you have to start doing increasingly obscure things just to do the same things that physical mitigation stats do for life vs spells (and ES does for spells by its very nature). There's a reason mitigation nodes in builds often get neglected, they're hampered by trying to straddle two different (reversed) systems: physical and magic. The 'basic' magic resist stat is unnecessarily hampered by the cap-system. People see the game as path of life nodes, or path of ES nodes, because large-pool builds suffer less from the resists mechanic. You know that point in your build where you hit maps, cap out resists, and promptly ignore resists while you focus on life/es pool? It's telling that capping resists is where you first start to hit 'path of life nodes'. In my opinion, the game would greatly benefit from a re-figuring of elemental resistances (without caps), before we try to bridge the Life/ES divide. Last edited by Obbu on Apr 29, 2017, 12:07:29 PM
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