How about creating more reasons not to go crit?
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lol@ phy melee in bad shape.
Right now with weapons like disfavour/starforge and bleed+ poison the game is a cake walk. Hell a level 30 claw can clear all content thks to poison + phy. On the other side non crit elem users with elemental focus deal 0 degen and even without elem focus the degen is fucking weak compared to crit. Imo Rt or elem no crit should get rewarded with support and tree giving better stuff. Elem overload was a good thing but RT need also a boost on DPS for sure. However I think elem RT melee is way shittier than RT phy melee unless you play HOWA. Poe Pvp experience https://youtu.be/Z6eg3aB_V1g?t=302 Last edited by Head_Less on Apr 24, 2017, 7:09:24 AM
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" Yeah, let's give the highest pdps 2h weapons + a broken mechanic as an example, then extrapolate their power over the phys melee builds in general. It makes sense. Crit mirrored dagger phys/poison melees are fine as well. Conclusion: phys melee is perfectly fine. Mhm. A fun fact: ele casters provide quadruple damage plus higher AoE resulting in much faster clear speed, with 1-3 ex in items total. And are more tanky. This is a buff © 2016 The Experts ™ 2017 Last edited by torturo on Apr 24, 2017, 7:42:35 AM
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voidheart + mid weapon do the job good enough and most mob only have 800 armor.
no crit elem need to deal with mobs having elem resist even in regular maps. Phy damage penetrate mobs much better than elem no crit. some spell have damage efficiency lower than 100%, phy melee always get 100% efficiency Poe Pvp experience https://youtu.be/Z6eg3aB_V1g?t=302 Last edited by Head_Less on Apr 24, 2017, 7:49:21 AM
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" so plz tell me how many more multiplier gem are there for physical spells? just 1 and now list all melee attacks that arent aoe,partly ele dmg,use posion or have a projectile part in it (only heavystrike and double strike come to my mind) the problem isnt with the supportgems but the melee attack gems themself i´m not saying at any point that melee phy is fine all i say is "adding another semi mandatory more multiplier support gem wont get us anywhere" it just puts more pressure on having a 6link and even with a 6link you just dont get to use anything "special" for your attack just the same supportgems as any other attack. Making every attack kinda use the same support gems makes the game boring i.e. you could give glacial hammer the ability to release a "ice novalike attack" when hitting a frozen target (and/or killing it) to give it some aoe so you could focus on singeltarget supports for the attack. ps: i know glacial hammer is an ele based attack i just had no idea for the pure physical ones. ofc you could say "we have trigger gems for that" , but i want to be able to scale that stuff with attack supports/passivs and not go pretending to be attackbased and just trigger/kill with spells | |
" Bone nova is a good exemple of phy melee aoe trigger skill. Imo compared to spell the only thing melee lack are trigger skills. Why can you cast 5-6 different spell at once but you can t use 5-6 different melee skill at once? We need more melee weapons with "on hit" skills. Forum pvp Last edited by lolozori on Apr 24, 2017, 12:26:23 PM
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" um... i'm really not misunderstanding anything. Spells have much more real options. Spells also have Spell Echo, which is one of the best dps amps in the game (at up to 52% more dps, compared to multistrike, which is a pathetic 35% dps amp and more just a usability gem). Now most of them also have CWC, which for spells around .75+ base cast time is pretty much around the same level a dps amp as spell echo+another support, while also eliminating the need for inc cast speed, cutting costs, and giving you the benefits of the channeled spell. Faster casting is also generally a more effective support gem than faster attacks, as attack speed is far easier to amass than cast speed, making the additive boost less relevant despite the high magnitude. Furthermore, added chaos and the like are much more useful to spells than they are to (most) attackers, as 'spell damage' boosts all types indiscriminately, while damage-boosting melee supports (besides conc effect, which is a whole other can of worms) are all limited to certain damage types rendering them relatively inefficient with added chaos. Melees basically get melee phys as a "good" dps support (and conc effect where applicable, but again that gems a balance mess), then the rest are either relatively weak dps amps (multistrike, faster attacks), good dps amps gated behind unreliable conditions (melee on full life, bloodlust), or amps that *look* like they're doing a lot on your tooltip when they really aren't doing much when you need them (added fire/WED/phys to light). Well, that and supports to make skills have passable clearing (inc effect/melee splash), but every general archetype has those. Projectile attackers have it a little better without crit, but not much... in fact once poison/bleed/ignite get what's coming to them, physical non-crit projectile attackers are probably going to be in a pretty sour state. But to say spells don't have good supports outside CD? Ha. Last edited by Shppy on Apr 24, 2017, 3:46:00 PM
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" again you are making the same mistake i´m not talking about the % on the support gems they need to be rebalanced what i´m saying ist There are enough Supportgems just another braindead more multiplier wont help at all every spell support gem you name has a version for melee as well and i never said a word about gems like added chaos dmg/conc effect etc since they can be used with attacks and spells that some gems are better for spells even though they can be used with both is totaly fine and has nothing to do with melee beeing melee , its more of a attack vs Spell thing. If you are using an attack (with the exception of a few uniq items and explosiv arrow+ ele hit ) even your ele dmg can be scaled with the melee physical dmg support gem IF you use a fully physical weapon + items (mods on rings etc) ofc most of the time that wont be the case but that isnt because of how the support gem works its because of your gear. faster/slow projectile ist kinda the only exception for obvious reasons just so you really read it the values on melee support gems AREN´T fair when you compare the to spell support gems BUT there ARE ENOUGH melee support gems in the game | |
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I never understood PoE crusade against crit.
"Why is something that stacks two damage numbers does much higher damage than a build with two less big damage numbers" I mean it's pretty obvious. Other ways that you can do damage outside of raw pure damage is status effects like ignite/poison/bleed/ect but we also want to nerf "double dipping". Anything else that can compete with "crit" like HoWA/Whispering Ice/discharge/spamming builds like CoC (mechanics that allow you to stack damage in different ways) we also decide to nerf because it's "broken". Last edited by RagnarokChu on Apr 24, 2017, 5:48:19 PM
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" The only problem is the damage output discrepancy. Right now, you're actually required to have a great one hander to scale damage to tolerable levels - from my own experience with single target melee skills, you need at least a cool 100K tooltip dps to manage red tier maps, while crit adds quite easily at least 3 times as much, even though it requires a larger investment in scaling. The problems appear as there is a severe gap between RT and Crit, which used to be a lot smaller a few versions back, due to Accuracy doing it's work and keeping Crit more in check than now. Not to mention that not gunning for RT or Crit leaves you with ele scaling via Elemental Overload. Any double dip, effectively, at least doubles your damage output, so for how much damage would you tune the content? Force everyone to have RT damage levels -> everything above ROFL STOMPS it. Force everyone to have Crit damage levels -> everything below doesn't get to be viable. Force everyone to have double dip damage levels -> it's either this or get ready to die like a @#%^&. It's common sense, if you remove the double dip level, and then close the gap between RT and Crit you could then tune the content for a median value. Just like they would have to do with monsters regarding damage, as these days you'll mostly die to damage spikes, why not severely up the minimum damage, while toning down the maximum output, so if you're going to get hit you won't experience a one shot, but a two/three shot becomes quite easily a thing? PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... Last edited by sofocle10000 on Apr 25, 2017, 2:05:51 AM
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"To add here, starforge is garbage in comparison to RT Disfavour or Crit Staves. Starforge literally only functions because Poison is broken, without poison that sword is literally nothing and when the poison/double dipping changes happen that sword is going to be vendor trash. I still remember people telling me i was "stupid" because i said when it came out that it was bad because it couldnt scale off elemental and disfavour is better. Now everyone agrees after months of trying it out. When 60%+ of your damage is elemental you cant fucking depend on one thing and expect it to carry. Shit, the difference between a lower DPS crit sword and starforge alone is massive, a crit sword poops on it. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. |
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