Buff unique bows. (pretty please)

RotC nerf spree was a clear kneejerk reaction, the bow went from amazing to mediocre and it now sells for the same or less as Death's Opus, probably due to its rarity alone, because Opus is superior. I have a good roll legacy (original version) 6l RotC and to be honest is doesn't feel gamebreaking at all, In fact I had higher dps with a Lioneye's Glare and some rares, the bow just helped greatly because I use multiple active skills and that free LMP fixed many issues.

Endgame scaling is another issue, coupled with the fact that you have to blow more points on HP nodes than average, I don't think stuff like guardians and Shaper, or even easier fights are possible without some crazy multidip build. With bows it seems to be all risk and little reward, you have to get many layers of defenses and play really, really carefully but for what? The damage output is far below many current builds which naturally have superior survivability. My low level sword and board gladiator with a Varunustra, junk gear and without those new treshold jewels, was already doing more overall dps than the bow build with legacy RotC, with goddamn cleave and double strike, all while being near unkillable.

And yeah, there were some completely insane melee two handers added lately, when the builds using those easily cover the whole screen nowadays, can't help but to wonder what's the purpose of bows right now.

"

Raudram wrote:

RotC nerf spree was a clear kneejerk reaction, the bow went from amazing to mediocre and it now sells for the same or less as Death's Opus, probably due to its rarity alone, because Opus is superior. I have a good roll legacy (original version) 6l RotC and to be honest is doesn't feel gamebreaking at all, In fact I had higher dps with a Lioneye's Glare and some rares, the bow just helped greatly because I use multiple active skills and that free LMP fixed many issues.

Endgame scaling is another issue, coupled with the fact that you have to blow more points on HP nodes than average, I don't think stuff like guardians and Shaper, or even easier fights are possible without some crazy multidip build. With bows it seems to be all risk and little reward, you have to get many layers of defenses and play really, really carefully but for what? The damage output is far below many current builds which naturally have superior survivability. My low level sword and board gladiator with a Varunustra, junk gear and without those new treshold jewels, was already doing more overall dps than the bow build with legacy RotC, with goddamn cleave and double strike, all while being near unkillable.

And yeah, there were some completely insane melee two handers added lately, when the builds using those easily cover the whole screen nowadays, can't help but to wonder what's the purpose of bows right now.

sorry, but that means that your bow build simply failed

legacy (original) RotC was comparable ONLY to mirrored Harbringers. ONLY. dps means nothing, the actual damage output was obscene

and it was free GMP not LMP

I'm not talking about tooltip dps but actual kill speed, things died faster with LG. The whole point of RotC was those extra arrows, because raw dps wise its pretty mediocre due to its base. Now we have stuff like Death's Opus which provides the same amount of extra arrows while being vastly superior for raw dps with all that crit.

As for failed builds, I guess two 6l (one of them being a good legacy RotC) with 20% gems and squeezing every single possible offensive node while keeping HP and defenses at reasonable levels, and running herald plus hatred just doesn't cut it, right? What a fun archetype, you can never get enough damage or survivability apparently.

"

Raudram wrote:

He's right though, RotC was nerfed to utter mediocrity and most of older bows were never that useful to begin with. Silvertongue will probably remain the 1 alch reskin bow. Nuro's Harp is crippled by GGG's nonsensical approach to mechanics like Consecrated Ground being cast on the enemy and not yourself and the fact that converting damage to element remains superior. Stuff like Infractem and Darkscorn remain useless. Chin Sol and Doomfletch Prism are niche but have their uses. Lioneye's Glare is still great but its usefulness is greatly crippled by the retarded reflect mechanics this game has so it's written off by default once you're past leveling phase. Death's Opus is pretty great though, and sadly it beats stuff that's much harder to obtain by a pretty long shot. Xoph's Nurture looks great on paper but seeing how it's another 1 alch item, I guess it isn't that great right now.

It feels like GGG is trying really hard to keep unique bows unappealing for some reason, while continuously tossing in absolutely insane "melee" two handers, after abandoning the concept of melee ages ago with all the ranged widescreen skills.

Exactly, btw edited one word in my first line, so now it makes more sense.
(compared to rare bows*)

Rare weapons were always meant to be better than uniques. Unique weapons are not meant to be flat out better than rares. That is why RotC was nerfed. Because it was a stupidly overpowered weapon that had no place in the game. I am glad they nerfed it.

Many of the other bows you mention are very good if you build around them in the right way - which is exactly how unique weapons are supposed to work.

Death's Opus is one of the strongest bows out there and it is entirely possible to make builds that can kill anything in the game with that bow. It scales well of flat phys and less so with crit multiplier due to diminishing return on that stat. It works well with barrage and you don't need LMP or GMP with AoE skills if you have Dying Sun.

Chin-Sol is maybe the best budget starter bow out there. On very close range combined with Point-Blank you gain a 200% more multiplier (100 dmg x 1.5 (point blank) x 2 (Chin-Sol)).

Voltaxic is currently one of the most overpowered bows out there. Elemental dmg scaling is easier than ever and the 60% chaos conversion combined with double dipping makes it easy to scale the damage into the 10+ millions (here are two guides that does exactly that. This https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1882958 and https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1879993).

Infractem is meant as a risky map-starting bow. Not a bow you should still use when you hit tier 8-10 maps. It's a bow league starter / early map bow and it serves it's purpose allright.

Lioneye's Glare could use a small buff but it is still really good. The always hit mod makes it easy to ignore the accuracy suffix on all your items. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8zjy4tHa0 #4 on Legacy HC ladder used this bow this league. Yes - Lioneye's Glare doesn't make or break his build. It's mainly the usual Assassin Poison double dipping thing that makes his build strong but honestly the bow is massive underrated by so many players out there. Also it is great for budget builds.

Also you state that is not worth it to craft a good rare bow. To me this shows me that you honestly are not a very experienced player. Until RotC came out many players were crafting their own bows. It is honestly not that hard to craft a really solid bow that can carry you through all content. And today it is also very cheap due to you getting a very cheap 6L Harbinger bow with the right itemlvl and alterations / regals being very cheap.

All in all - and I gotta be a bit harsh on you now - you do not know what you are talking about. At all.

Finally GGG has stated that they want uniques to be either leveling items, starter map items (budget items) or endgame items. None of the bows you mentioned does not fall into one of those categories which means they are all working fine. Finally you ask GGG to buff Death's Opus and Voltaxic which are maybe the strongest two bows out there atm -.- ...

"

Frankenberry wrote:

Rare weapons were always meant to be better than uniques. Unique weapons are not meant to be flat out better than rares. That is why RotC was nerfed. Because it was a stupidly overpowered weapon that had no place in the game. I am glad they nerfed it.

Many of the other bows you mention are very good if you build around them in the right way - which is exactly how unique weapons are supposed to work.


All in all - and I gotta be a bit harsh on you now - you do not know what you are talking about. At all.

Finally GGG has stated that they want uniques to be either leveling items, starter map items (budget items) or endgame items. None of the bows you mentioned does not fall into one of those categories which means they are all working fine. Finally you ask GGG to buff Death's Opus and Voltaxic which are maybe the strongest two bows out there atm -.- ...

Except nope.
They are awful, just compare them to 1-10c harbinger bows, AWFUL.
Death opus is probably the best bet but still not very good, thing is, projectile skills suck now because they usually were supported by absurdly good bows, so to balance they have low base damage.

THEN, THERE IS THIS LITTLE THING CALLED GREATER MULTIPLE PROJECTILES WHICH R.U.I.N.S ANY BUILD for 14+, unless ofc, you have a 370+ pdps bow with large crit.

PLUS, DRILLNECK 50% DAMAGE NERF.

Making bow builds with this meta? Pffffft prepare to get rekt.
Which tier are you cleaning deathless and efficiently with a physical bow build?

And finally, I KNOW RARE BOWS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER. I didn't say otherwise, annoys me that people always use this as misleading my words.

so you were for 'real'

it takes a very very brave sould to say that bow builds suck.. a very brave soul indeed

pretty much everything you wrote ^^ is mostly off or just asking for more unjust power

btw 10c Harbinger bows are ~220pdps nocrit noaspd. i highly doubt that these beat chin sol, xophs, RotC or even Infractem. if you do the math youll know that Lioneyes has dps of a 350pdps 8crit harbinger. for a price of 'mind your defences or reflect will kill you'


btw i did T13 (then highest tier) with Infractem TWO BUFFS AGO! it is just a matter of build


the only two questionable designs that left are: Nuro's Harph and Darkscorn. first one is DoA because it is too much fluff replacing damage. second is simply weird - caster bow of sorts with no clear identity

"

The_Risen wrote:

"

Frankenberry wrote:

Rare weapons were always meant to be better than uniques. Unique weapons are not meant to be flat out better than rares. That is why RotC was nerfed. Because it was a stupidly overpowered weapon that had no place in the game. I am glad they nerfed it.

Many of the other bows you mention are very good if you build around them in the right way - which is exactly how unique weapons are supposed to work.


All in all - and I gotta be a bit harsh on you now - you do not know what you are talking about. At all.

Finally GGG has stated that they want uniques to be either leveling items, starter map items (budget items) or endgame items. None of the bows you mentioned does not fall into one of those categories which means they are all working fine. Finally you ask GGG to buff Death's Opus and Voltaxic which are maybe the strongest two bows out there atm -.- ...

Except nope.
They are awful, just compare them to 1-10c harbinger bows, AWFUL.
Death opus is probably the best bet but still not very good, thing is, projectile skills suck now because they usually were supported by absurdly good bows, so to balance they have low base damage.

THEN, THERE IS THIS LITTLE THING CALLED GREATER MULTIPLE PROJECTILES WHICH R.U.I.N.S ANY BUILD for 14+, unless ofc, you have a 370+ pdps bow with large crit.

PLUS, DRILLNECK 50% DAMAGE NERF.

Making bow builds with this meta? Pffffft prepare to get rekt.
Which tier are you cleaning deathless and efficiently with a physical bow build?

And finally, I KNOW RARE BOWS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER. I didn't say otherwise, annoys me that people always use this as misleading my words.

There is so much misinformation in your post that I start to doubt that you are even playing the game this league.

The Drillneck nerf was fine. It is still a very strong choice (almost mandatory in terms of pure pDPS) in pierce builds. Especially if you double dip with poison the 50% projectile damage is strong. The flat added physical damage also scales particularly well with unique bows that have a somewhat lacking flat phys.

Also you state GMP is ruining any build in tier 14+ unless you have a 370 pDPS bow is just not true. honestly I think you know this as well and certainly everyone reading knows this as well. GMP is a fantastic booster to your clear speed. With my Doomfletch Prism Raider I 1-shot tier 14+ packs with chain and GMP. GMP is a booster to AoE and clearspeed. As for boss killing you can just have your boss killing single target skill in your chest (or weapon swap if using Kaom's Heart).

That you think you cannot clear tier 14+ super fast with GMP unless you have a 370 pDPS bow is bullshit. And you know it.

Your statement that 1-10 chaos rare bows are better than unique bows across the board is simply not true. Not even close to it. The highest 100 chaos bow (offline search) in Legacy SC is around 330 pDPS with bad suffixes. It's been there for weeks because no one wants to buy it because it is does not have great crafting rolls. The highest Harbinger with 10C is around 300 pDPS. Those bows also have bad suffixes.

Assuming you need GMP with a Harbinger and you don't with a Death's Opus the 300 pDPS = 300 x 0,74 (lvl 20 gmp) = 222 pDPS which is very close to a Death's Opus. Except the Death's Opus also has 150% crit multiplier.

perfect rolled Chin-Sol (which isn't that expensive) gives 267 x 3 pDPS in melee range. Combine these with Empire's Grasp and you got a bow that technically gives you 534 pDPS although (which then is multiplied by 1.5 with point-blank). All though you have to get up close with enemies which can be a downside.

In other words: Death's Opus and Chin-Sol > the rares you mentioned. You can put Lioneye's Glare, Voltaxic and Windripper on that list as well. They are much better choices if you know to build around their mechanics.

Here is a 4 second Chayula Kill done with Voltaxic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMeuraC80kk. Yeah ... I can totally see how that is just so bad that we need to buff this bow further -.-

Also at the beginning of this league people starting calling this game Path of Projectiles because projectile skills (and pseudo-projectile skill such as Frost Blades) are in such a good spot - yet you say the exact opposite. Now people on the forums always exaggerate such things ("melee in unviable", "AoE is now worthless" and so on) but honestly they are right projectiles to the degree that projectiles are strong. No - it's not the only viable thing but it's damn strong.

And which tier of maps I clear with a physical bow build? Well this league I played Chin-Sol for starters (duelist. Cleared all tiers including double boss Core). Currently I am fooling around with a Doomfletch Prism build and clearing all tiers np.

"

sidtherat wrote:

so you were for 'real'

it takes a very very brave sould to say that bow builds suck.. a very brave soul indeed

pretty much everything you wrote ^^ is mostly off or just asking for more unjust power

btw 10c Harbinger bows are ~220pdps nocrit noaspd. i highly doubt that these beat chin sol, xophs, RotC or even Infractem. if you do the math youll know that Lioneyes has dps of a 350pdps 8crit harbinger. for a price of 'mind your defences or reflect will kill you'


btw i did T13 (then highest tier) with Infractem TWO BUFFS AGO! it is just a matter of build


the only two questionable designs that left are: Nuro's Harph and Darkscorn. first one is DoA because it is too much fluff replacing damage. second is simply weird - caster bow of sorts with no clear identity

You speak the truth. Honestly this thread is a good laugh. Someone is actually for reals claiming that bows (and unique bows of all things) are weak xD xD xD

Getting a fucking headache reading this thread holy shit.

I agree with sid though on Nuro and Darkscorn. I tried to make Nuro work in Prophecy League (7L with Lioneye Vision) and the bow still was so awful it hurt to play. A fucking shame because the guy who made the bow wanted it to be a Harbinger, but gave it a mediocre elemental roll and no attack speed. If the argument was that it looked like a Harp to use Harbinger why not use Thicket? No Unique Thicket Bows and shape seems perfect idk. Not really sure on Darkscorn, I look at the bow a lot but just seems weaker if you're trying to Poison etc which seems like its niche.

As for saying Death Opus/Voltaxic needs a buff, gimme a break. Most bows on the list fulfill their niche anyways and it's not always cookie cutter to replace one for the other. Hell, I have Shaper kills with Chin Sol and LG as well so I doubt it's anything but user error. Xoph bow you don't plug it into a Phys bow shell and call it a day, maybe one of these days if I'm less lazy I'll do Taming/Emberwake/Grand Spectrum Xoph and see how that goes but that idea I had upon seeing the item.

Oh and to the guy that said LG kills faster than ROTC, you must have shit accuracy I'm sorry mate. LG is nice but ROTC outshines the hell out of it.

Other bow I'm not sure about is Slivertongue, have Rigwald Quill to test but not sure.


/e

"

Frankenberry wrote:

You speak the truth. Honestly this thread is a good laugh. Someone is actually for reals claiming that bows (and unique bows of all things) are weak xD xD xD

Can you imagine if they buff bows further LOL

Me right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i29dInj73Bc