Everyone dishes ES, but can we take into account the obscene requirements to be "end-game" viable?

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Completed 23 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
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Youre being completely disingenuous with what youre linking as "proof" of prices.



no, quite blatantly you are.

I listed int specific hats because you listed an int hubris and said it cost you either 1 alch or a 1c essence, Im showing you how much that hat actually costs.


You listed your hat and said its worth 10ex, in your own search...

9% increased Evasion Rating??
+91 to maximum Life P1
+40% to Fire Resistance S3
+38% to Cold Resistance S3
+40% to Lightning Resistance S3
10% increased Stun and Block Recovery

ursine pelt like yours, listed for 1 exalt. Youre talking about t1 life + 3x natural 36%+ resists hats, its not my fault theres literally 1 high es hubris circlet with those resists on the market, you are telling me your gear is worth more than its equiv in es, and its quite blatantly not.



I said I coudl equip a build that could do what my evasion ranger does for 1-5c on most of these slots, and Ive shown that. YOU turned that into "well you cant get gear as good as mine for 1-5c' which I never even claimed, so whos twisting shit and being disingenuous? Claiming a hat for 1 alch to 1c that a search for brings back a minimum price of 6.5ex, and then you act as if Im intentionally listing good stuff and you can get medium stuff instead... Im price checking the items you linked mate, you call them blatantly over priced? Thats the market price, welcome to es.

I stand by what I say and its clear from everything linked and price checked so far that I am right in everything Ive said despite you trying to change to goal posts on whats being said constantly.


"

Will i agree that really good ES pieces and Top tier pieces are more expensive than life ? Absolutely. But you dont need a 500 es helmet, you dont need a 900 es chest.


you dont need the life gear youre linking either, you only need what I was linking, so youre linking mediocre 400 es items at 3 exalts each and Im linking mediocre life items at 1, 2, 3 chaos a pop, point proven.
No im not lmao

YOU MEAN THE 300 EVASION URSINE PELT ? Youre talking all this shit but saying a 300 evasion piece is acceptable when you fully acknowledge that you need x/y/z values in armour/evasion. Youre quite literally contradicting what youre saying.

300 Evasion is shit tier.

http://poe.trade/search/ubuinitoyagona

The only helmet listed comparable to mine is the Silken Hood, which is listed for 20 exalts. My helmet also divines higher. All the life and res rolls are amazing, the only thing "mediocre" on my helmet is the total amount of evasion, the only way it could be higher is on a higher base or me exalting on a modifier.

"Huh, what's the? I did what!? No I didn't. Oh I did, NO I DIDNT REEEEEEEE" - TD

"Excuse me, youre ruining my forum experience while i post whine threads and spam. Youre literally the most toxic person ever, unacceptable" - GM
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Mar 18, 2017 12:03:17 PM
"
[
YOU MEAN THE 300 EVASION URSINE PELT ? Youre talking all this shit but saying a 300 evasion piece is acceptable when you fully acknowledge that you need x/y/z values in armour/evasion.

300 Evasion is shit tier.



yeah, you know, the one with a free prefix to bench on % evasion just like you did.... lol. Meanwhile best in slot hat for evasion melee ranger is starkonjas and costs 1 chaos mate.



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Completed 23 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
"
[
YOU MEAN THE 300 EVASION URSINE PELT ? Youre talking all this shit but saying a 300 evasion piece is acceptable when you fully acknowledge that you need x/y/z values in armour/evasion.

300 Evasion is shit tier.



yeah, you know, the one with a free prefix to bench on % evasion just like you did.... lol. Meanwhile best in slot hat for evasion melee ranger is starkonjas and costs 1 chaos mate.



You bench it on it, it barely breaks 400. He has a SHIT hybird roll. Mine is the T2 hybird roll, theres a massive difference in values especially in crafting value.

Also please dont derail from the statement. Youve fully acknowledged the fact you NEED good rolls on gear. Those rolls arent acceptable, you know they arent, yet here you are.

You said what, 10k armour is acceptable ? In my gear im at roughly 8k, soo with trash gear like this stuff youre linking youd be at even less than what you personally believe to be a "required" amount. Its a complete contradiction when youre saying life with a proper amount of evasion or armour is fine. Soo when youre linking that trash you are being disingenuous.

Edit - Also, it makes zero sense youre comparing your ranger to a name lock melee play.
"Huh, what's the? I did what!? No I didn't. Oh I did, NO I DIDNT REEEEEEEE" - TD

"Excuse me, youre ruining my forum experience while i post whine threads and spam. Youre literally the most toxic person ever, unacceptable" - GM
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Mar 18, 2017 12:14:49 PM
Stop debating snorkle,can't do anything but making your points twisted.

Pretty glaring obvious when I was telling my point that I got obsense amount of es COMPARED to melee.He chose to bass my gear as being bad,when my point wasn't even that.

He can't seem to understand that having essentially double(literally) es with less than what a good life build would require on gear,is not normal at all and defend this to so much fault,he can't see beside his nose.

When his fix for es,is 5% less behind ci,its pretty telling what agenda he serves.

So let's stop arguing,he won.We will let GGG decide soon
Bye bye desync!
"
"
Completed 23 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
"
[
YOU MEAN THE 300 EVASION URSINE PELT ? Youre talking all this shit but saying a 300 evasion piece is acceptable when you fully acknowledge that you need x/y/z values in armour/evasion.

300 Evasion is shit tier.



yeah, you know, the one with a free prefix to bench on % evasion just like you did.... lol. Meanwhile best in slot hat for evasion melee ranger is starkonjas and costs 1 chaos mate.



You bench it on it, it barely breaks 400. He has a SHIT hybird roll. Mine is the T2 hybird roll, theres a massive difference in values especially in crafting value.

Also please dont derail from the statement. Youve fully acknowledged the fact you NEED good rolls on gear. Those rolls arent acceptable, you know they arent, yet here you are.

You said what, 10k armour is acceptable ? In my gear im at roughly 8k, soo with trash gear like this stuff youre linking youd be at even less than what you personally believe to be a "required" amount. Its a complete contradiction when youre saying life with a proper amount of evasion or armour is fine. Soo when youre linking that trash you are being disingenuous.



no I said you need the rolls of the gear I linked that was 1-5 chaos a piece. Like I said, starkonjas hat, 1 chaos



YOU are trying to make what I said be about your particular hat, at no point in this thread did I say hey, you need tin foil hats hat to make a life build work.

This is what I said that you responded to...

"
I dont think the gear needed to replicate the defense stats I have on my life builds is neccesarily expensive, its still as cheap or cheaper than ci gear. The whole decent level ci gear is cheaper thing, its really not. When a lightning coil is 1 chaos and you can get your boots, gloves, hat etc for 1 to 5 chaos each, and you can facetank guardians with that gear, theres no expense in it.


you made it about your hat, dont try and pin that on something I said. I said replicate my boots, gloves, hat etc on that EVASION melee build, and Im using a 1 chaos hat mate which is better than the hat you are using.

you have 8k armour, so ur iron reflexes with a legacy coil? Have you actually done the math on having evasion instead with phase acrobatics? If Ive mentioned armour at some point its not in regards to evasion melee rangers with a coil on, I wouldnt be wearing a coil on an armour build and I certainly wouldnt need a tri resist hat with 550 evasion when I can get a 700+ starkonjas, I wouldnt be making an arour build with iron reflexes unless I was using an aegis anyway so its a pointless train of thought that cant bare any relation to any point ive been making.

Last edited by Snorkle_uk on Mar 18, 2017 12:29:15 PM
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Completed 17 Challengeselwindakos wrote:

He can't seem to understand that having essentially double(literally) es with less than what a good life build would require on gear,is not normal at all and defend this to so much fault,he can't see beside his nose.



I understand you have double the life pool, you dont seem to understand that having 6,500 es is not as good as having 6,500 life, if you want to match a 6,500 life build for being tanky, purely on es, youre going to need 13,000+.
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Completed 17 Challengeselwindakos wrote:
Stop debating snorkle,can't do anything but making your points twisted.

Pretty glaring obvious when I was telling my point that I got obsense amount of es COMPARED to melee.He chose to bass my gear as being bad,when my point wasn't even that.

He can't seem to understand that having essentially double(literally) es with less than what a good life build would require on gear,is not normal at all and defend this to so much fault,he can't see beside his nose.

When his fix for es,is 5% less behind ci,its pretty telling what agenda he serves.

So let's stop arguing,he won.We will let GGG decide soon
I mean i know for a fact that its mathematically inaccurate. Gear required to enjoy life based melee is more expensive than relative Energy shield pieces to make energy shield "enjoyable", the difference in effective life simply due to being in range vs no being in range is obviously incalculable but its obvious which is better, taking no damage.

The reason why people go ES + Instant leech is because...

1) Actual life pool is currently more important than effective life for Energy Shield.
2) Instant Leech prevents the secondary "Kill hit"

I played a 78/78 Max Block Gladiator with 13k Armour and like, i think 7k evasion, I was Formless Inferno and Perfect Form, completely decked out with +1 Anvil. Obviously ran a CWDT setup, also had trigger curses on being hit, I rolled Temporal Chains and Enfeeble, with nearly 6k life i was still entirely susceptible to being blown to shit by Volatiles in maps. While i was certainly "tanky" it did not prevent me from dying even with all the defensive investments and gear.

You throw a handful of points into energy shield, get mediocre energy shield gear and youre immediately in better standing than someone who spend most their points in life, and fully geared defensively and even used defensive skills. Its just math, its there for anyone, i know it isnt really arguable but here we are.

We could even go into theorhetical maxes but id rather not because its legitimately depressing how poor BIS slot comparisons are between the two.
"Huh, what's the? I did what!? No I didn't. Oh I did, NO I DIDNT REEEEEEEE" - TD

"Excuse me, youre ruining my forum experience while i post whine threads and spam. Youre literally the most toxic person ever, unacceptable" - GM
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Mar 18, 2017 12:38:35 PM
"
Completed 23 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
"
Completed 17 Challengeselwindakos wrote:

He can't seem to understand that having essentially double(literally) es with less than what a good life build would require on gear,is not normal at all and defend this to so much fault,he can't see beside his nose.



I understand you have double the life pool, you dont seem to understand that having 6,500 es is not as good as having 6,500 life, if you want to match a 6,500 life build for being tanky, purely on es, youre going to need 13,000+.


Yeah, if you have 50% resistances on the ES build, then yes, that is true, otherwise no.

And then we didn't even talk about chaos resists, CI obviously also has that upper hand, lowlife can cap out it at 75% with ming's heart (not penalizing you as much as it does on life), vertex.

On life base you have the option to use mirrored gear or take that single life cluster with 20% res, then get instagibbed by the ED exile on a poison map.
4.0 patch notes

* Armor sources have been replaced with condensed milk.

Players can't feel the difference at all
Last edited by krenderke on Mar 18, 2017 12:44:33 PM
As somebody who is playing their first viable ES build, it's pretty even. Though people aren't really factoring in, is just how much more expensive ES builds are. They should be good because they cost a fortune and also they're not as OP as people think. Currently have 6.5k ES and it's nothing like having 6.5K life. You have to kite with that amount of ES. I can die if I'm not paying attention on Lake runs with that amount, let alone anything above T4.

I love life builds, I like the defense. What life builds need is a damage bonus or at least more opportunity to get crit (which is where the big damage comes from obviously). ES isn't super buffed, it's just that life is so weak in comparison because they're typically melee builds which get hit far more often.

I'd say boost the tree to get more crit nodes, or at least make accuracy much higher so that you don't miss 20% of the time on some builds so they can be good crit strikers. I personally miss life builds because they have so much defense and sometimes you can face tank. With my ES build I do lots of damage but I'm squishy as hell (soon I'll have 10k ES which will definitely help, but that's only a couple hits more anyways on higher difficulties, if not one if facing a strong opponent).

Life needs a boost, ES doesn't need a nerf.
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Completed 23 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
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Completed 25 ChallengesAndrius319 wrote:
Imo it would be terrible if they would nerf quantities of es.
The damage spikes mobs does is just stupid. For example few days back got instagibed by some random blue bear in vinktars map (6.5k hp) and it's not even a red tier map.

How does life builds play now? they die left and right or they stack the damage so high so they can one shot everything as fast to prevent that random incoming oneshot (or invest literally everything to defenses and build can't kill stuff).

Would rather see vaal pact rebalance, life buff, monster damage rebalance.



what sort of character were you playing? Did you have any physical damage reduction?


no mitigation, it's dodge build with some evasion.

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