0.1% of all people control 99% of the resources, are you willing to live in a world like this?

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Raycheetah wrote:

“Since this is an era when many people are concerned about 'fairness' and 'social justice,' what is your 'fair share' of what someone else has worked for?” ― Thomas Sowell

I've seen this pattern many times:

1.) Ask an average person if the rich are paying their "fair share" and he/she will surely say no.
2.) Ask them what constitutes "fair share" and they will say something like 20%-30%
3.) Tell them that the rich are already taxed at 40%-50% and they will be surprised and then tell you that the rich should pay more.

lol wut!? :)

Ami on the Street: Hipsters know nothing about taxes

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

"

morbo wrote:

Having money to invest, create jobs and eventually pay taxes, does benefit society.

All this leads to more production, more waste of resources and the destruction of our basis of existence as long as our economies are based on burning things. Regulating capitalism must be the least step. From my point of view (pure) capitalism is nothing more than legalized crime.

Nobody forces you with a gun, to consume or buy things. I never owned a smart phone, because I dont feel I need it. How many smart phones have you burned through in the last ~10 years?

Buy only shit you actually need and save/invest the rest of the money for future projects (or work less and have more free time). It's not the "Capitalist" (monocle + top hat, lol) fault, that people can't control their salivary glands.

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morbo wrote:

"

Schmodderhengst wrote:

"

morbo wrote:

Having money to invest, create jobs and eventually pay taxes, does benefit society.

All this leads to more production, more waste of resources and the destruction of our basis of existence as long as our economies are based on burning things. Regulating capitalism must be the least step. From my point of view (pure) capitalism is nothing more than legalized crime.

Nobody forces you with a gun, to consume or buy things. I never owned a smart phone, because I dont feel I need it. How many smart phones have you burned through in the last ~10 years?

Buy only shit you actually need and save/invest the rest of the money for future projects (or work less and have more free time). It's not the "Capitalist" (monocle + top hat, lol) fault, that people can't control their salivary glands.

I never even had a (private) mobile phone.

People are indoctrinated by advertisements and people that want to use them. The smarter people are, the more they notice that. Many people don´t notice it at all and feel less worth without the newest phone or an expensive car.



(They live; 1988)

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

People are indoctrinated by advertisements and people that want to use them. The smarter people are, the more they notice that. Many people don´t notice it at all and feel less worth without the newest phone or an expensive car.

Since free market capitalism is not authoritarian, people still have their free will and freedom of choice. It's the collective society that regulates how much consumerism there will be, because despite all the propaganda, consumerism is still based on voluntary exchange.

You cant force people to be "more smart", you can only teach or inform people. Some will listen, some wont, that's part of evolution too.

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morbo wrote:

people still have their free will

I get your point, but I wonder...

Advertising psychologists would be jobless. Indoctrination and Propaganda would not exist. Totalitarian leaders would not control the media...

"Free will" is based on certain motivations.

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morbo wrote:

Since free market capitalism is not authoritarian, people still have their free will and freedom of choice. It's the collective society that regulates how much consumerism there will be, because despite all the propaganda, consumerism is still based on voluntary exchange.

People can voluntarily choose to not purchase food and heating? Jobs dont require clean clothes and transportation? You are free to sleep where you want?
Nay. We have biological needs which cannot be legally satisfied without participating in the system. The system is not free as it places demands on the citizens which can only be met by participating in the system.

As for luxury and entertainment, sure... there is a consumerism. But that is a far different topic than basic living requirements imo.

What's your point? In 2017 it's easier to survive than ever. People live longer than ever, food is cheap, clothing is basically free, even poor people have cars and can afford to drive them...

WTF, really? Consumerism & mass production is bad, cause... even refugees from Syria have smart phones?

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SkyCore wrote:

People can voluntarily choose to not purchase food and heating?

You can voluntary choose to live in the wilderness, gathering, do some farming and heating up with firewood. Will you do it? NO, because surviving in the "evil system" is much cheaper, easy and comfortable.

E:
You can choose to limit your consumption, even of basic goods. Choose to not use up all that electricity, prepare your food yourself instead of eating out, dont have a car, use a bicycle, dont travel, dont read magazines, dont buy books (go to the library), dont use computers / phones / TV... Its all up to you at what level of discomfort you want to get.

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morbo wrote:

WTF, really? Consumerism & mass production is bad, cause... even refugees from Syria have smart phones?

??? What on earth are you talking about? I in no way ever hinted that mass production is 'bad'.
It is the system of control which requires permits, licenses, fees, fines, taxes, and perpetuates the consolidation of power into the hands of very few(whom dont have the best interests of the whole at heart) that i have a problem with.

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morbo wrote:

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SkyCore wrote:

People can voluntarily choose to not purchase food and heating?

You can voluntary choose to live in the wilderness, gathering, do some farming

No, no you cant. You require money, permits, licenses, fees, zoning, and taxes to do any of that.

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morbo wrote:

and heating up with firewood.
Will you do it? NO, because surviving in the "evil system" is much cheaper, easy and comfortable.

I actually DO heat my home with wood, with an electric space heater for when i sleep or am away from the house for a while. So dont try to tell me what 'kind of person' i am. It is a lot of dangerous and hard work, but i do it. Just because you are too weak and lazy to do so, doesnt mean im not. Not everyone is just like you.
If i could afford it, i would install solar panels as well.

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SkyCore wrote:

No, no you cant. You require money, permits, licenses, fees, zoning, and taxes to do any of that.

Then you really shouldn't vote for big government leftists, cause they will just pin more of those regulations, permits, fees... and taxes on your ass.

So you have to pay for electricity, food, water, etc. basic goods. Big deal. You pay for water, because you don't need to walk with a bucket to the nearest well at 5:00 in the morning, anymore. Life is still cheaper, easier, more comfortable and longer than it was 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago. It's cheaper to buy food than produce it yourself (I know because we plant various crops every year, for our own consumption). Heating solutions are getting cheaper too.

If you really wanted to completely escape the "system", you could still do it. You would probably need to emigrate away from the western world, tho.

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morbo wrote:

"

SkyCore wrote:

No, no you cant. You require money, permits, licenses, fees, zoning, and taxes to do any of that.

Then you really shouldn't vote for big government leftists, cause they will just pin more of those regulations, permits, fees... and taxes on your ass.

So you have to pay for electricity, food, water, etc. basic goods. Big deal. You pay for water, because you don't need to walk with a bucket to the nearest well at 5:00 in the morning, anymore. Life is still cheaper, easier, more comfortable and longer than it was 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago. It's cheaper to buy food than produce it yourself (I know because we plant various crops every year, for our own consumption). Heating solutions are getting cheaper too.

If you really wanted to completely escape the "system", you could still do it. You would probably need to emigrate away from the western world, tho.

I dont think you understand the real issue though. It is not about escape, its not about industrialization... It's about about an unfair system that could be so much better.
Im very much in favor of a huge push for more automation, government incentives for invention, and a central repository for all information regarding engineering (and medicine) which can be freely used with incentives for contributions.
Also we need a merit based system of resource allocation. No money should be generated from simply the intelligent leverage of money or 'ownership'. Iv described such a economic system in the last page here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1206854/page/8