Map diversity sucks hard without trading

Some of the people defending the current Atlas implementation must have absolutely hated the game before GGG added the new insane map grind. Can you believe maps would just drop automatically without forcing you to grind hundreds of maps hoping to get an adjacent map to drop? The horror!

Your lives must have been absolute hell.

I shouldn't have to say this, but some people simply don't get it. GGG isn't infallible. The current implementation of Path of Exile is not perfect. Defending awful aspects of the game with no better argument than "that's how the game is" is the most mindless, worthless position possible. Be better than that. Try as hard as you can to kick that terrible conservative mentality and develop actual good reasons for believing what you believe.

My feedback always draws out the same batch of GGG apologists, yet they have never produced a remotely sensible, rational argument defending whatever I'm critiquing at the time. It's disappointing.

So much bad faith ....

If anything, maps have never been easier to sustain, by far, and some of us here have been playing for longer than you.


You're the one who is not getting it imho, you're not understanding that what you are criticizing ( which is only a nice way to put it ) is intended, they designed it this way, period.
And thinking that your point of view is the only "valid" one is arrogant at best, by the way.
Trying to throw "your conservative mentality" is also quite ... well I don't want to be moderated but it's really bad.
And very ironic, you're the one that want the game back to what it was before, yet you are almost insulting others people, using "your conservative mentality ?"

That's pretty hypocritical, as much as the guy that just said before "You can add your own restrictions, this is not an excuse" while asking for an easier SSF, which can be done in normal leagues with one's own sets of rules.

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Jennik wrote:

Some of the people defending the current Atlas implementation must have absolutely hated the game before GGG added the new insane map grind. Can you believe maps would just drop automatically without forcing you to grind hundreds of maps hoping to get an adjacent map to drop?

You are quite exaggerating. Filling out (most of) the Atlas SSF is not so difficult or lengthy, but it can't be done in just a few days, like in trade leagues. Zana already helps a lot, I usually need to just check her daily offers to fill out the holes I left while "rushing" to T10+.

Before Atlas there was only a vertical progression, Atlas added lateral progression. That's the whole point of even having a world map with pathways. Ok, GGG could make small tweaks (they changed unique maps to drop everywhere, for example), improving the chances of locked maps dropping, or something like that... but I'm opposed to any sorts of (too) easy access. You already have that in trade leagues, if you want.

Why play SSF league and not just a regular league? You can skip trading in a regular league if you want. I can only think of one reason you would want the SSF flag by your name. And that's so other people can see what a great player you are. Making anything easier in SSF takes away the meaning of having a separate league. If you can't handle the extra challenge of having the SSF flag, then why are you playing it? Having all maps unlocked on the atlas to start makes progression completely pointless. Why not start the game with all the waypoints active? All the masters level 8?

Navali is there to offset rng. She can give you masters. I don't use any silver coins until I'm mapping and just playing through the story until that point gives me 60-80 coins. That's a way to get Zana to spawn. And last I read, masters have a 50% spawn rate in maps. Run a bunch of tier 1 maps until you find her. That's how I leveled masters in Fosaken Masters. You will never run out of tier 1 maps and you don't even have to clear them. Just run through looking for masters.

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morbo wrote:

You are quite exaggerating.

I obviously didn't mean you grind a single map hundreds of times. I meant you play maps you otherwise wouldn't play hundreds of times total to get adjacent maps while unlocking the Atlas.

The argument you're giving would defend any terrible grinding that was added to the game. "I'm opposed to any sort of easy access" to Act IV. I think we should have to run every Act III zone 1-15 times in order to progress to the adjacent zones. What's the point of even having an Act map with pathways if we don't have to grind the fuck out of each area before progressing?

Hopefully that demonstrated how ridiculous your position is in a way you can understand and accept.

Locking playable content behind grind walls is not a good thing. I seriously doubt you'll be able to provide a rational defense of doing this for maps, just as I doubt you could do it for any of the regular zones in Acts I-X.

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mark1030 wrote:

Having all maps unlocked on the atlas to start makes progression completely pointless. Why not start the game with all the waypoints active? All the masters level 8?

That's completely absurd and not remotely analogous to having maps drop before grinding and unlocking them. All Act zones and all waypoints already start the game unlocked. You don't have to grind Docks over and over again to unlock Solaris, for example.

Progressing through Acts is equivalent to progressing through maps before GGG added the grind wall with the Atlas expansion. You simply have to run content to access the next available content (though maps always had the RNG element that slowed you down).

Starting with all waypoints active and all masters level 8 would be more like starting with a stash full of infinite copies of every map and a level 100 character. You're skipping the game entirely at that point.

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Fruz wrote:

maps have never been easier to sustain, by far

How can you possibly read this thread and be under the impression my complaints are about sustaining maps? I've said nothing about map sustainability in this thread. How can I possibly communicate rationally with someone who so completely fails to understand my words?

My complaints about the quality of argumentation from GGG apologists are clearly well-deserved.

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Jennik wrote:

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morbo wrote:

You are quite exaggerating.

I obviously didn't mean you grind a single map hundreds of times. I meant you play maps you otherwise wouldn't play hundreds of times total to get adjacent maps while unlocking the Atlas.

No you don't, unless you don't know how the atlas work and you can't figure out a way to progress through it.


Now comparing the storyline and maps this way is really silly.
Maps needs to be rolled to progress quicker, which means that one needs to make them harder.
That's the whole point of maps.
The only thing that the Atlas is doing (compared to before) is rewarding knowledge (which you seem to lack, that or either how to use that knowledge), and making map sustain much easier.

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Jennik wrote:

Progressing through Acts is equivalent to progressing through maps before GGG added the grind wall with the Atlas expansion. You simply have to run content to access the next available content (though maps always had the RNG element that slowed you down).

Wake up !
The grind wall was higher before the Atlas ...

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Jennik wrote:

How can you possibly read this thread and be under the impression my complaints are about sustaining maps? I've said nothing about map sustainability in this thread. How can I possibly communicate rationally with someone who so completely fails to understand my words?

Let me just quote you :

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Jennik wrote:

Some of the people defending the current Atlas implementation must have absolutely hated the game before GGG added the new insane map grind.

Sustaining maps ( which means also unlocking the next ones ) was much more difficult before the atlas.
If you cannot sustain maps, you cannot get the next tiers, and if you cannot get the next tiers, you don't progress and you don't "unlock" sh*t because the RNG screws you up badly eventually.

Atlas makes it easier, if you know how to play with it.

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Jennik wrote:

My complaints about the quality of argumentation from GGG apologists are clearly well-deserved.

Your complaints are about yourself not understanding how to efficiently unlock the Atlas, and that people that are pointing it out.

And that's what I get for disabling the forum ignore list script. Ugh.

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Jennik wrote:

And that's what I get for disabling the forum ignore list script. Ugh.

Of course, having actual arguments would have been expecting too much I guess. Ugh.