Socialism
" I certainly hope so, otherwise the 21 century's gonna be a bit unpleasant :D The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again.
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Just print more money lmao
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GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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" You only think that because whatever country you are from, the "Proletariate" hasn't put a bullet in the head of your family members or robbed blind everything your ancestors created and passed on to you. "There is no government" = socialist nonsense claptrap, in Socialism/communism there will always be the need to keep people from owning "means of production" and produce excess things for themselves == police state. And to get there you will always need to rob others of their current wealth. " Eskimos have even a bigger standard compared to their GDP. That doesn’t actually tell you squat. " Capitalism & free market are an economic organisation. Communism will be the next social organization, only if you manage to completely destroy the family nucleus, where people would be "bred" without knowing their parents or their children, and would take care of random strangers in the "collective", Like termites or the Borg. Also romantic attachment to other people will be banned, because you can't have preferences for some people in communism. Sounds great, but how many individualist people are you willing to kill to achieve this glorious transformation? And why has every attempt at communism ended in slaughter and dictatorship? Capitalism will end any-time soon? Why hasn't ended 100 years ago, when the first commie revolutions popped up? E: Don't forget that in communism you'd also need to erase all religions, cultures, and any other non homogeneous social distinction, that could cause some people to prefer (=produce excess wealth for) certain groups over others. You have a big fight ahead of you. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo on Nov 23, 2016, 7:15:09 AM
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""Socialist"" is only a power word, evry political party want´s to be fair and social.
Without the upper class the small worker wouldn´t have work, a Ingenieur deserves more than a backer, because his work is more valuable to the Society. So what wages would be absolutly fair in that example? Komunismus may work on a national level, but defenetly not on a international. Nation´s have conflicting intrest´s, be it because of resources our ground. If a nation absolutly need´s x our y, it very quickly finds itself in kapitalism. Unless you completly abolish nation´s, what kommunism actually want´s, that problem is not resolved, and if that would be the case, who is to decide over the wealth? Companies beeing greedy is partily nessesary, because they want to secure there future. Sometimes that may go to faar and it start´s to damage the overall wealth of the People, but that does not simply happen because they are all bad People, that´s a lack of kommunication and guidance. Sometimes the gouverment has to intervene, prize and wages regulation´s are nessesary. On a international level even Embargos are nessesary, if a Society doesn´t want to lower itself to slave like Labor. That´s currently the Problem of many country´s, they can not compete on that level. Economy is self fullfilling, humans work for humans, and not the human serves the work. The bolshevik´s openly admited, that komunism was designed to bring down society´s, i personaly wouldn´t search for that lidl bit of enlightment in that particulary ideology. And they succeded in taking over russia, because nobody focused on them. We don´t need revolution´s but rather improvement´s step by step. | |
"The nonexistence of government is impossible. Even within a single family, parents make rules, enforce said rules, and determine guilt and innocence; a family is a government. Any free association of people is a government; clubs sometimes formalize their rules and bylaws, sometimes they keep them informal. GGG governs this forum. I'd even argue that a single person is their own government. Although I am still working on the basis for that argument. Even if all government were destroyed, not even a day later a million governments would rise to take its place. Human nature abhors a power vacuum. In practical terms, anarchy means the brutal governance of warlords, each with their own fort and their own slaves, unchecked by larger regional or national governments. The entire notion of big government and small government is a lie; the real issue is centralization versus decentralization. Political power is freedom to limit the freedom of another; freedom is the range of choices - both in quantity and quality - in potential action. When federal and global governance loses power, the result is that state, municipal and family governments gain power. The Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution is true, but it's redundant; it is a law of nature. While socialism is perhaps possible (we just don't know how to implement it yet), communism is impossible. In order to shatter the basic concept of socialist (and, more loosely, capitalist) meritocracy - "to each according to his contribution," the amount of statist enforcement required would be extraordinary. Individuals will simply not be willing to put forth effort if they do not believe they will be rewarded for it. Communism cannot be enforced except at the continuous point of a gun held to one's head, and no society can afford the soldiers to hold them all. Marx's idea that communism follows socialism is absurd. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" You don't have to be a socialist state to implement Socialism. Many countries in the world implement both capitalism and socialist principles. Socialism is pretty much implemented in various form around the world in parallel with capitalism. Communism has problems that need to be solve for it to work. There need to be incentives to work but it can't be materialistical. There is also the need to prevent the tragedy of the commons. You can't have people wasting resources. There need to be a huge ideology shift. Communism must be agree upon by everyone or at least majority of the people. In another word, it must be self enforced by everyone. Communism is theoretically possible just logically absurdly difficult if not improbable to get implemented. Marx idea is that Socialist states is a transitional phrase to Communism. I don't really agree, a hybrid system with capitalism and socialist principles seem more appropriate to deal with the financial and social problems. |
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"I agree with this part of your post (disagree with most of the rest). I quoted Einstein earlier, he did a good job of explaining how pure capitalism devolves into corrupt corporatism. I feel what we need is government which stands against this corporate power rather than being bought by, or otherwise allying with, it. As an American, I'm inclined to believe in checks and balances - essentially, getting powers to fight each other instead of allying against the people - and hope to see potential for that in coexisting capitalist and socialist systems, pitting corporations against government. To a certain extent pure capitalism creates checks and balances, as the corporatist factions which arise from it compete against each other (Democrats and Republicans are both bought by elites but not on the same side, it's elite vs elite combat); however, in their shared goals they can agree, and weaponize government and media against the people. It is in those areas particularly that we must guide government's self-interest and lust for power not to agree with corporate interests, but to fight against them. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Nov 23, 2016, 3:49:32 PM
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" The checks and balances simply do not work very well. You have corporate interests on both sides. Corporations pit Democrats vs Republicans, Divide and conquer. You usually lose. You can't usually get the different political parties with different vested interest to work together against the corporation, the corporations can however influence politicians on both side in a united front for their vested interested. It result in the inability or unwillingness of those responsible to detect, expose, and remedy those failures. You have a vicious cycle and check and balance result in an inability to break the cycle. |
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" Not prosperous. They made great strides/leaps in development. Forced, is the key word, as you say, and they willingly sacrificed numerous lives and their standard of living to get there. " bah, you already revealed the ending of the movie! You are correct, of course, but oftentimes it is more powerful for someone to discover for themself, with their own sources of information, than have it revealed to them. IMO, and from what I have read on history, Marxist style socialism, on the nation scale is like relying on potluck diners to keep a restaurant going. Intermixing capitalism and socialism has worked and failed to varying degrees. The increasing concentration of wealth in capitalist countries WILL bring about its downfall, if that trend isn't reversed. That reversal won't be pretty, and I doubt it will be peaceful. The willingness to accept the fallout from the necessary actions isn't there yet - e.g. the temporary complete collapse of wall street, for starters. " The conditions were ripe long before, for both Japan and China, but they had intentionally rejected Western notions as backwards, until it was painfully obvious. " It would be nice if this were true. Africa would be easy to bring out of poverty if it were. " That isn't what history has shown. The variety of costs of development (economic, environmental, social etc) may be high, but the process can be accelerated. PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
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