How does Multistrike and Chance to Bleed interact?

"

Peterlerock wrote:

In 3.0, ailment damage and attack damage are calculated separately.

Multistrike has "less attack damage", but that doesn't mean anything to bleeds.

O.k I saw the change in the patch notes.

"Skills calculate their Ignite, Poison or Bleed values as a separate damage value, taken straight from the base and added damage of the skill. This gives skills that deal fire damage a minimum and maximum Ignite Damage per Second value that is rolled on Ignites that the skill causes. Poison, Bleed and Ignite damage values are based on the base damage of the skill, and then affected by appropriate damage modifiers. Some damage modifiers affect both the hit and the Ignite, Poison or Bleed, while some only affect one."

I guess Gamepedia doesn't reflect changes in 3.0. I don't understand why brutality, maim, and melee physical damage supports all raise the bleed damage. The melle physical damage support specifies that it raises damage with bleeding but the other two don't.

"

0piate wrote:

I don't understand why brutality, maim, and melee physical damage supports all raise the bleed damage. The melle physical damage support specifies that it raises damage with bleeding but the other two don't.

If I understand it correctly, maim and brutality do not grant more bleed damage (except for the "maimed monsters take extra damage" part of maim)
Ruthless and melee phys do (it's written on the gem).

If you want to scale bleed DoT over frontloaded physical damage, you use melee phys and ruthless, but then you need ailment support gems like "chance to bleed" etc.

What attack are you Multistriking with?

As pointed out, Gladiator with MS and even just basic more-Bleed-chance buffs should be nigh-guaranteeing Bleeds on stuff. Glad + C2B gem means you need next to no boosts from the tree to cap your Bleed chance, it's super easy to do. The only thing I can think of to ask is whether you're using a single-target attack like Double Strike or something? In that case, no amount of Bleed chance is going to let you bleed whole packs with one Multistrike unless you're also using Melee Splash, because you're not hitting entire packs at once.

Are you DS-ing? Lacerating? Viper Striking for some weird reason? Heavy Strike...? FACEBREAKER ICE CRASHING?! Which skill are you using that this set-up's not working for you?

"

Vipermagi wrote:

"

1453R wrote:

FACEBREAKER ICE CRASHING?!

Two things worth noting:
Thread is old.
Ice Crash cannot benefit from Multistrike, silly :p

That does not even remotely mean people ain't tried it and you know it :P

But yeah. Did not notice Threadromancy. Blugh.

"

1453R wrote:

What attack are you Multistriking with?

As pointed out, Gladiator with MS and even just basic more-Bleed-chance buffs should be nigh-guaranteeing Bleeds on stuff. Glad + C2B gem means you need next to no boosts from the tree to cap your Bleed chance, it's super easy to do. The only thing I can think of to ask is whether you're using a single-target attack like Double Strike or something? In that case, no amount of Bleed chance is going to let you bleed whole packs with one Multistrike unless you're also using Melee Splash, because you're not hitting entire packs at once.

Are you DS-ing? Lacerating? Viper Striking for some weird reason? Heavy Strike...? FACEBREAKER ICE CRASHING?! Which skill are you using that this set-up's not working for you?

Right now I'm experimenting, changing things around. I'm a level 88 Gladiator running tier 11 - 14 maps. I was using Heavy Strike with Brutality, Multi Strike, Melee Physical, Faster Attacks, and a plain rare axe for a weapon and Resolute Technique. But I found some new gear and switched things around. Now I'm using Double Strike with Accuracy, Multi Strike, Faster Attacks, Deadly Ailments, and Mark of the Doubting Knight Dagger. Then I got rid of Resolute Technique and got Disembowling instead, then learned Crimson Dance. I still don't have my gear the way I want though, need to farm up more chromatics.

After my change, my tooltip DPS went way down from 22k to 6k. But it seems like I'm clearing packs just as easily as before. Now I am getting a stacking bleed, poison, and burning damage which melts everything pretty good. And my physical damage reduction went from 66% to 73% because of the new body armour I switched to. So I'm hoping I'll do better, I was kind of stuck at a level 88 with the build I had before.

Hm. Try this, instead.

Lacerate/Sunder > Multistrike > Deadly Ailments > Unbound Ailments > Brutality.

Your hit damage is going to blow chunks on this sort of build, so the only real way to try and do better at bossing is to rely on Crimson Dance and Bleed damage. Lacerate allows better pack coverage, Sunder offers a bigger initial whack so better Crimson Dancing on bosses. If you're worried about accuracy, Lycosidae seems to be the universal answer these days, though frankly Resolute Technique is just fine for a Bleed/Ailment build. You don't really care about crits anyways without Perfect Agony, and PA is way out of the way for left-side Gladiators. Deadly/Unbound/Brutality is a triple MOAR for your Bleeds,so hopefully that combined with tons of ailment scaling in the tree should let you clear single target better.

Sadly, Gladiator Bleedsplosions don't scale with skill supports, so no Brutality Bleedsplosions. Try and find as much "physical damage" in your tree/gear as you can. Not weapon physical or melee physical, just straight-up physical damage to scale those Bleedsplosions as possible. 'Damage' and 'Physical Damage' are the big ones. Maim Support's debuff would be good, as would Belt of the Deceiver's Intimidate. Or any sort of Intimidate, honestly. Vulnerability curse, too. Vuln-on-hit glove corruption would be baller for this sort of build.

You're not going to be as good at sustaining chain reactions as an Abyssal Cry build, but if you tweak it right you should be pretty good for clearing either way, and focusing hard on heavy Crimson Dance bleed damage should help you do better overall and get over the level 90 hump.

I've thought about sticking with brutality and going hardcore bleed damage. But did you look at the mods on Mark of the Doubting Knight?

50% increased Global Critical Strike Chance
5% additional Block Chance while Dual Wielding
(250-270)% increased Physical Damage
10% reduced Attack Speed
+(6-10)% to all Elemental Resistances
50% chance to Cause Bleeding on Critical Strike
50% chance to Cause Poison on Critical Strike

It looks like it was designed for bleeding and poison which is why I got it, attack speed is low but base damage is high so it procs the bleed, poison, and burning damage well. But I didn't want to give up the poison mod on the dagger is why I'm not using brutality. Unfortunately, I'm using Queen of the Forest body armour which is all evasion so it will be hard to get more than two red sockets out of it. But it's giving me 3005 evasion which converts to armour thanks to Iron Reflexes. This dagger requires critical strike too for the bleed and poison to work.

Counterpoint: without extensive crit chance boosting, i.e. being an actual crit build, the 50% Chance to Bleed on Crit doesn't really work. 50% of a 12%-odd crit chance or whatever else one can manage with a left-side dagger build is only 6% overall boost to your chance to bleed. One minor Chance to Bleed node in the tree gets you more than double that. Not a super efficient way to go.

Your build is centered on the Gladiator Bleeding interactions; Poison doesn't really do anything for you. You'd end up with much better damage overall by focusing on the mechanic you're working with. The Dirty Techniques and Bloodletting clusters both have 30% total chance to bleed; the Marauder axe and sword wheels each also offer some bleed chance. Red Storm over next to Iron Grip offers straight physical damage (which boosts your Bleedsplosions) and more bleed chance. It's more or less trivial to cap your regular on-hit Bleed chance for a left-side Gladiator, which obviates the need for Mark of the Doubting Knight - and also Multistrike, come to think of it. You can switch to something without a piss-poor attack rate and with better options for clearing if you liked.

Alternatively, if you want to stick with MotDK for its relatively high single-hit damage? Then reconfigure for 100% Bleed chance and consider Spectral Throw. ST > GMP > Deadly Ailments > Unbound Ailments > Brutality. 3G1B1R should be doable on a Queen of the Forest (though QotF is super bad for Iron Reflexes builds since it slows you down a ton once you chop all your Evasion off), you still get excellent pack coverage, and since your main damage is Bleed-based you shouldn't even need to switch out GMP for bosses. I don't know as Crimson Dance Bleed-focused ST Gladiator is going to be a top-notch build, but it'd certainly be fun.