How does Multistrike and Chance to Bleed interact?

I could not find this answered in any of the stickies or elsewhere on the web.

My question is this - I am using the Gladiator ascendancy nodes, Gratuitous Violence and Blood in the Eyes. Together, they add up to "Attacks have 50% chance to cause bleeding".
I am capitalizing on the "Bleeding enemies you kill explode" part of Gratuitous Violence, so I want to make sure that everything I kill is always bleeding. For this, I currently use a weapon with the property "Causes Bleeding on Hit", such as from a unique item e.g. Jack, The Axe, or by crafted Vagan 7.

My question is, how does multistrike interact with these properties? "Attacks have X% chance" is worded differently from "causes X on hit", which implies the roll is per attack and not per hit.
So when I swing with multistrike, is it a 50% chance for the whole multistrike attack? Or is the 50% chance rolled for each hit?
Example:
Attack with multistrike - Swing (primary), Swing (repeat1), Swing (repeat2)
If rolled per attack, if the 50% rolls yes to bleed, all three hits cause bleeding.
If rolled per hit, each of the three swings rolls its own 50% chance to cause bleeding - which works out to a much more consistent bleed proc rate over time!

This is important to me because I am often wiping a pack out with one or two multistrikes, and I want to guarantee that I cause bleeding on everything as much as possible, to get the chain reaction explosion from bleeding enemies dying. Say it takes two multistrike attacks - this is either two chances to bleed (which can easily and commonly fail both times), or 6 chances to bleed (very unlikely to fail to bleed 6 times in a row). In three multistrikes, 3 chances versus 9(!) etc.


As a secondary question, when the attack or hit does cause bleeding, is it rolled across the board (applied to every monster that the attack or hit, hits), or is it rolled individually per monster?

I hope this made sense. It is potentially a huge difference in clear speed, by either 1) exploding a whole pack of monsters on the first try, or 2) swinging over and over to 'proc fish' bleeds on some of them. The easy road for now is to continue wearing a lower dps, but 100% chance to bleed weapon :(

Bleed, and most on-Hit effects, are rolled per Hit. The only major exception is critical strikes.

Each swing rolls its own chance.

Individually per monster.

I don't know why the wording is different, probably because they were put in the game at different stages in development :)

So if the chance to bleed is rolled individually for every monster, on every hit...
I guess I am stuck using a weapon that guarantees bleed. Thanks!

Any proof of this? I'd really like to know for 100% cause I could be using a 350 dps weapon over a 240 dps...

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LachdananU235 wrote:

So if the chance to bleed is rolled individually for every monster, on every hit...
I guess I am stuck using a weapon that guarantees bleed. Thanks!

Any proof of this? I'd really like to know for 100% cause I could be using a 350 dps weapon over a 240 dps...

I don't understand - in the OP, you said if it was rolled every hit that would be good.

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LachdananU235 wrote:

So if the chance to bleed is rolled individually for every monster, on every hit...
I guess I am stuck using a weapon that guarantees bleed.

Isn't it quite the opposite? Like you said in your original post, 9 chances to bleed over 3 skill uses is more "consistent" than 3 clustered chances to bleed, no?

If I were making this build, I'd probably slot in Multistrike and ditch any guaranteed bleed weapons. You said you have 50% bleed chance without guaranteed bleed? With Multistrike and some good attack speed, that's practically guaranteed bleed on every monster.

The only downside is that Multistrike lowers your Hit damage, which makes each Bleeding effect weaker than if you did not use Multistrike. But at least it doesn't double dip!

If it rolled per hit for the whole pack, that would be even and consistent I think.
If it rolls per hit per monster, that's a whole other thing.
What I get is a chain reaction so that as soon as the first monster dies and pops, it kills the next lowest etc. and the whole pack pops, but they ALL have to be bleeding for that to work.

So if it took one more swing to guarantee bleeding on all of them, okay. But if it rolls per monster and part of the pack isn't bleeding when the first few pop, it kills the reaction.

Either way this is conjecture until anyone can point to definitive proof on how this works, such as, a GGG post explaining the mechanic difference (if any) between "causes on hit" and "attacks have a chance to cause"; OR I blow a few exalt on another weapon to compare, which I don't want to do right now.

Thanks for all the answers so far.

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LachdananU235 wrote:

Either way this is conjecture until anyone can point to definitive proof on how this works

It's not really conjecture. If you've used many "chance to x" things before, (eg: blind, shock, ignite, flee, gain a charge, etc...) you'll know that's how they work generally. So it's not a big stretch to assume chance to bleed works the same way.
Also, it's exceptionally easy for you to test it yourself in-game, by attacking monsters and checking which ones bleed, since you already have the bleed nodes on your gladiator.
Or, just equip any weapon (not a multi-ex one) and go to a level that fits your new dps, and check how the chain reactions work in practice.

How come when I take the multistrike gem out of my chain the bleed damage stays the same in my character sheet? The damage per hit goes up because I am removing the 30% damage penalty from multistrike so I would expect the bleeding damage to also go up. Is this a glitch left out of the character sheet or is this on purpose so you don't lose bleed damage by adding the multistrike support?

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0piate wrote:

How come when I take the multistrike gem out of my chain the bleed damage stays the same in my character sheet? The damage per hit goes up because I am removing the 30% damage penalty from multistrike so I would expect the bleeding damage to also go up. Is this a glitch left out of the character sheet or is this on purpose so you don't lose bleed damage by adding the multistrike support?

In 3.0, ailment damage and attack damage are calculated separately.

Multistrike has "less attack damage", but that doesn't mean anything to bleeds.

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LachdananU235 wrote:

I guess I am stuck using a weapon that guarantees bleed.
Any proof of this? I'd really like to know for 100% cause I could be using a 350 dps weapon over a 240 dps...

Maybe some (2?) "attacks have 15% chance to cause bleeding" nodes + chance to bleed gem?
It should be:
- 50% from glad
- 30% from nodes
- 25% from gem
= 105% chance to bleed

Do some math in Path of Building.