Casters need a way to leech mana other than relying on Warlord's Mark

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sidtherat wrote:

i do not want to nitpick on your Hierophant build but.. if you call your build heavily invested in mana then i have no further questions.

Whoa, hold on there. You're telling me that with 150% increased maximum mana + 236 flat mana (before intelligence bonus) + 165% regen + Survival Secrets + a level 18 Clarity, it makes sense that I can't sustain my mana pool (that is, can't cast as much as I want outside of lowered regen maps)? This investment is far more than most caster builds use. Obviously I could go higher with flat mana and with more mana nodes on the tree (my tree's a bit funky anyway since I was testing EK), but this investment is ridiculous!

My build works perfectly well as long as I can use Warlord's Mark or mana potions, but with that kind of investment, you'd think you could manage without needing either of those two things in basic maps.

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Tempada wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

i do not want to nitpick on your Hierophant build but.. if you call your build heavily invested in mana then i have no further questions.

Whoa, hold on there. You're telling me that with 150% increased maximum mana + 236 flat mana (before intelligence bonus) + 165% regen + Survival Secrets + a level 18 Clarity, it makes sense that I can't sustain my mana pool (that is, can't cast as much as I want outside of lowered regen maps)? This investment is far more than most caster builds use. Obviously I could go higher with flat mana and with more mana nodes on the tree (my tree's a bit funky anyway since I was testing EK), but this investment is ridiculous!

My build works perfectly well as long as I can use Warlord's Mark or mana potions, but with that kind of investment, you'd think you could manage without needing either of those two things in basic maps.

Hmm... I'm actually with sidtherat on this one. Your tree has about 6 dedicated mana nodes, and your gear has only 2 mana boons on it. Pledge of Hands doesn't necessarily help your mana situation, it's true that it gives you a lot of mana but it's also a 7-link item. Your Storm Call is lvl 21 but your Clarity is only lvl 18. You invest at least as much into cast speed as you do into mana, so it's understandable that you're having mana problems without WM.

Once you do uber lab, all your problems will be solved. In fact, I see no reason for you not to spend 10 regrets and get Sanctuary of Thought immediately, since Illuminated Devotion is barely doing anything for you (20% OoS radius is all you get). If you then refund Sovereignty for another 5 points and pick up Deep Thoughts and the whole Righteous Decree cluster, then by my back-of-the-napkin math you should be able to sustain Storm Call even in low-regen maps, without needing Clarity or the jewel.

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Tempada wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

i do not want to nitpick on your Hierophant build but.. if you call your build heavily invested in mana then i have no further questions.

Whoa, hold on there. You're telling me that with 150% increased maximum mana + 236 flat mana (before intelligence bonus) + 165% regen + Survival Secrets + a level 18 Clarity, it makes sense that I can't sustain my mana pool (that is, can't cast as much as I want outside of lowered regen maps)? This investment is far more than most caster builds use. Obviously I could go higher with flat mana and with more mana nodes on the tree (my tree's a bit funky anyway since I was testing EK), but this investment is ridiculous!

My build works perfectly well as long as I can use Warlord's Mark or mana potions, but with that kind of investment, you'd think you could manage without needing either of those two things in basic maps.

well..

numbers you list look impressive. yet they mean little.

what you invested in, and invested heavily is DPS. what you invested NOT into is mana sustain.

all the mana nodes on the tree are circumstantial - you would have picked them anyway (maybe excelt that 4%life/mana node near Witch). you have picked ZERO, i repeat ZERO dedicated mana nodes on the tree. ZERO. this investment is non-existent.


when you have a 7Link with 5 140% and 1 130% supports on a lvl21 spell you should at least do something to handle the mana flow. picking the circumstantial nodes is what 5Link build can live by on. your setup requires some extra 'cash' - drop one or two dps clusters and restructure your passives

it is similar to someone buying - with their last cash - a beautiful sports car. without realization that it juggles 30 litres/100.
great dps requires great sustain. you have great paper dps that changes to 0 dps on hexproof maps because you want to somehow ignore the sustain part. this is a game trying to balance people's DPS down with soft caps.

edit: i see you've picked 2 mana nodes since my last post and picked MoM! that node will kill you with your current mana situation... few rapid hits (like from reflect - your purity wont help you) and youll go OOM. MoM without %damage taken as mana and not sorted out mana sustain is suicide in disguise.. even with Zephir's flask that i think you use instead of that low-lvl junk one

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sidtherat wrote:

all the mana nodes on the tree are circumstantial - you would have picked them anyway

My tree was really out of whack (hadn't looked at it since I messed with it last league for EK). All fixed now and put back to my original build, except for Intuitive Leap, which is new, and I ran the lab for the final two points (naturally Sanctuary of Thought fixed all sustain problems, and I can even go without Clarity like ThatsSoGoodman said). It still seems like a lot of investment without Sanctuary of Thought, but you're right about the 7-link gobbling up mana. And reflect hurts a lot, but I don't know of a way to fix that without Vaal Pact.

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lorem331 wrote:

Almost every caster is using warlord's mark, because no one wants to waste a link on the mana leech gem.
We need another way to leech mana on the passive tree, like those nodes Spirit/Vitality void nodes.

Berserker has mana leech passive (and Ascendant's berserker, after kill).
Boots enchant gtants mana leech after kill.
Vessel of Vinktar grants mana leech too.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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lorem331 wrote:

Almost every caster is using warlord's mark, because no one wants to waste a link on the mana leech gem.
We need another way to leech mana on the passive tree, like those nodes Spirit/Vitality void nodes.

Berserker has mana leech passive (and Ascendant's berserker, after kill).
Boots enchant gtants mana leech after kill.
Vessel of Vinktar grants mana leech too.

Whatever you just listed is literally the most unreliable shit ever. Mark is literally the only and best reliable way to get mana efficiently. The shit you listed? Cmon dude those are garbage.

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Etherfire wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

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lorem331 wrote:

Almost every caster is using warlord's mark, because no one wants to waste a link on the mana leech gem.
We need another way to leech mana on the passive tree, like those nodes Spirit/Vitality void nodes.

or you can open the passive tree and type 'mana' into the search box. think about it. mana is something you are expected to invest into. melee guys have it bit easier casters.. have to use few (~4?) points and some affixes on gear.

it isnt that hard. youll manage.

Not a very helpful, or useful reply mate. He's not quite wrong, tbh. Mana regen in endgame maps isn't quite as viable as it used to be. Too many frequent as well as rewarding map mods nerf regen/recovery into the ground.

Not saying his solution is the best, but casters do need an alternative for mana.

Bullshit! Casters don't have to invest anything into accuracy like fighters have to so why exactly should casters get even better mana leech again without investing into it? It's not that often that I share sidtherat's opinion but this time I couldn't have said it better myself!

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

... Vessel of Vinktar grants mana leech too.

... The shit you listed? Cmon dude those are garbage.

What? Garbage? It's not even possible to run out of mana with the vessel. ^^

Some here want casters to be able to easily leech mana, have 99% of the mana pool reserved and not need to use mana flasks?? In short, you want everything.

Mana managment should be very easy for melee attackers, a mild investment for ranged attackers and a noticeable investment for casters.

Rename the tthread to "I suck and cannot find a way myself plz someone tell me which out of 15 available options i should take"