Casters need a way to leech mana other than relying on Warlord's Mark

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sidtherat wrote:

im 'condescending' because im old and can easily tell when the problem is real vs problem caused by the person reporting such problem. this is the second case imho - and its description might go like 'people not using tools given to them because these tools negatively affect dps output'

That's too bad. Are you old enough to have achieved the realization that you gimp your own ability to communicate with people when you treat them with disrespect? Perhaps you think it is worth it if you successfully make them look bad? (That backfires nearly 100% of the time, by the way, making you look much worse.)

I've seen you make excellent points, backed up by logic and evidence, such as in this thread. And then you hamstring yourself by tossing in an insult or two. It's quite a waste, really.

@OP There are boatloads of tools for mana management in this game. More than any other game I've seen. What additional tools would you suggest?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

@OP There are boatloads of tools for mana management in this game. More than any other game I've seen. What additional tools would you suggest?

I'm not saying that casters should get things for free. And I also understand the melee vs caster imbalance. However, at the moment, when I look at the various options to manage my mana as a caster, Warlord's Mark is a very good deal - you get mana leech, life leech, and endurance charges - as long you stay clear of hexproof maps.

Furthermore, as a caster, it is easy to get Whispers of Doom, which gives an additional curse for defense/offense.

Why would I invest in mana regeneration, even extra mana or consider using the mana leech gem?
This is why I suggest that we should be given more options in the passive tree. Or as others have said, buff mana regeneration.

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lorem331 wrote:

Why would I invest in mana regeneration, even extra mana or consider using the mana leech gem?
This is why I suggest that we should be given more options in the passive tree. Or as others have said, buff mana regeneration.

Why indeed.

Why *wouldn't* you, if you are having mana problems?

If you want mana leech you can always go with Berserker.

It's a decent choice for life based casters, even for CI casters to an extent (some wasted nodes but still decent).

The choice is always there, if you chose not to take it then you can't really complain about it.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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lorem331 wrote:

Why would I invest in mana regeneration, even extra mana or consider using the mana leech gem?
This is why I suggest that we should be given more options in the passive tree. Or as others have said, buff mana regeneration.

Why indeed.

Why *wouldn't* you, if you are having mana problems?

Maybe while leveling, but let's be real: no competitive build is going to use the Mana Leech gem by endgame (with the possible exception of some CwDT setup that leeches).

I've hated mana on casters ever since EB was removed, which is probably why after some experimentation I've only played BM casters lately (with the exception of a Pledge of Hands Storm Call Hierophant, and even that character with all its mana couldn't sustain in a 6L without potions or Orb of Storms + Curse on Hit + Warlord's Mark).

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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lorem331 wrote:

Why would I invest in mana regeneration, even extra mana or consider using the mana leech gem?
This is why I suggest that we should be given more options in the passive tree. Or as others have said, buff mana regeneration.

Why indeed.

Why *wouldn't* you, if you are having mana problems?

Please read my post - Warlord's mark solves my mana problems.
I am NOT complaining that this mana problem cannot be solved, because as I have already stated in my OP, Warlord's Mark solves my problem (except for hexproof maps).

Would it be bad for the game if GGG provides a good, viable alternative to warlord's mark? That would make things more interesting.

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Tempada wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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lorem331 wrote:

Why would I invest in mana regeneration, even extra mana or consider using the mana leech gem?
This is why I suggest that we should be given more options in the passive tree. Or as others have said, buff mana regeneration.

Why indeed.

Why *wouldn't* you, if you are having mana problems?

Maybe while leveling, but let's be real: no competitive build is going to use the Mana Leech gem by endgame (with the possible exception of some CwDT setup that leeches).

I've hated mana on casters ever since EB was removed, which is probably why after some experimentation I've only played BM casters lately (with the exception of a Pledge of Hands Storm Call Hierophant, and even that character with all its mana couldn't sustain in a 6L without potions or Orb of Storms + Curse on Hit + Warlord's Mark).

i do not want to nitpick on your Hierophant build but.. if you call your build heavily invested in mana then i have no further questions.

ill list it here:
excluding circumstantial mana nodes (as in - tied with life or other stuff) youve spent exactly ZERO passives on mana

you are directly next to two most powerful caster mana notables (Righteous Decree and Deep Thoughts) and you skip them.

your gear barely looks like a mana-based items (amulet has low flat mana and mid mana regen, first ring has no mana related stuff, second has mastercrafted low roll). no other mana on gear except double mana from pledge but this is 100% increased over a low value so nothing impressive. what you miss is -%reduced mana cost and %regen.

clarity is not lvl20 and you use Hierophants 10% damage taken from mana risking sudden OOM situation.

it is not problem with mana but with build in this case. it can be easily fixed - at the price of some dps if you can pay that.

mana management has 4 vectors: flat mana (increasing flat regen), % mana (again - increasing flat regen and multiplicative with flat mana), flat mana regen, % regen (multiplicative with flat regen and flat mana). to balance the cost with income there is also -cost and -%cost. it is a simple equation anyone can calculate using spreadsheet of sorts. increasing one value does little and results in OOM (the hierophant's node is a trap!)

I've felt that mana regen has been significantly worse than the other methods of sustaining mana in the late-game since the patch that changed how EB and arctic armor work.

It's waaay too easy to roll map mods that totally ruin your build if you're dependent on mana regen. Yeah, you can use a mana pot, but then why invest in mana regen in the first place? Especially when getting mana leech works so much better!

Overall, I think mana regen could use a buff, and that the -regen mods on maps should either be way more rewarding or should be nerfed/removed.

I agree 100%.Played EK pathfinder (f**k bv so lame and cheesy) and I had 140 mana regen and at 75 mana cost ek was str8 aids. Remade the build as marauder took the 1% mana leech node ascendancy. Can sustain 6 cast per sec ek at only 50 mana regen lol. Either give us back legacy EB or add mana leech simple.

*duplicate*