Yet another CoC feedback thread

Just this weekend I started leveling a Barrage/CoC/EK wander in Standard, because I genuinely didn't think that GGG would do anything significant to nerf CoC. Now it looks like that build will be all but dead come 2.4.


And all I can say is, good riddance. Although I'm sure it would have been hilarious (it's already pretty amusing at level 48), the removal of CoC cheese (don't say that out loud) is easily one of the best things to happen to this game in a long time IMO. I'm very happy to sacrifice that build on the altar of game balance, and this change restored a bit of my faith in GGG. Who knows, maybe in the next expansion we're even going to see actual melee improvements! (j/k, GGG hates melee)


I realize a lot of people don't think the implementation is great (I'm not a fan of the 500ms cooldown myself), but you gotta admit that it's the right idea. I'd much rather see GGG slowly fumbling in the right direction than effortlessly speeding off a cliff.

Although technically feedback, I should point out that you haven't played the game with the balance changes, so you're providing feedback not for an action role-playing game, but for a forum post. Just saying.

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suszterpatt wrote:

I realize a lot of people don't think the implementation is great (I'm not a fan of the 500ms cooldown myself), but you gotta admit that it's the right idea.

Can you specify at least one advantage of using the gem now instead of just self casting or using totems?

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stalkingjackal wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

I realize a lot of people don't think the implementation is great (I'm not a fan of the 500ms cooldown myself), but you gotta admit that it's the right idea.

Can you specify at least one advantage of using the gem now instead of just self casting or using totems?

so you admit that currently cocs is just BETTER than self casting?

state game should be in is COCS is an ALTERNATIVE to self casting

currently the best caster is CoCS user.

i expect two things: a) taht CoCS will remain very strong and the more clever players will find it out sooner than latter (and despite that people will cry-me-a-rivers about CoCSisDED!) b) CoCS will be a build TYPE. not a BETTER version of casters. that will attract other type of players (because currently CoCS are played mostly by people that play THE BEST and only the best - mostly as a self-esteem boost)

If its an alternative, it has to offer some benefits over other ways of casting.

Because unlike self casting/totems CoC will need to invest in attack speed, crit chance and accuracy AND spell damage, while also sacrificing 2 gem slots. Just mana efficiency doesn't justify all that trouble.

I was never a big fan of CoC anyway but I'm not blind to the fact that they overnerfed it.

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Because unlike self casting/totems CoC will need to invest in attack speed, crit chance and accuracy AND spell damage, while also sacrificing 2 gem slots. Just mana efficiency doesn't justify all that trouble.

But damage scaling might.

Crit will scale on both the attack and the spell.
Elemental damage / raw physical damage will scale on both the attack and the spell.
The spell is getting a multiplier from CoC.
Projectile or AOE multiplier will scale on both also.

It's a different gameplay, some people might call it fun ( I mean, people finding the mechanics fun instead of the fact that you can faceroll content with a broken combination fun ).

We will see.

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stalkingjackal wrote:

If its an alternative, it has to offer some benefits over other ways of casting.

The benefit is that you don't have to self-cast it and do another action instead?

With my Molten Strike/CoC Discharge Templar, the main issue I've had is CoC triggering Discharge too frequently, before I've built up enough charges to make it worthwhile. In that regard, I'd actually welcome a short cooldown, but I suspect 500 msec will be too long for triggering Discharge via melee attacks.

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almostdead wrote:

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stalkingjackal wrote:

If its an alternative, it has to offer some benefits over other ways of casting.

The benefit is that you don't have to self-cast it and do another action instead?

Now the "benefit" is having no support gems to buff triggered spells damage (need use them for attack + coc, and maybe gmp/multistrike/pcoc), and casting WAY slower than caster does... so as far as I see this, is caster with a 3L or 4L, beats any cast on crit build with ease.

And the other action, that CoC char does, instead of casting, is using the attack skill to trigger the set... not anymore though. I suppose top usage for CoC now whirling blades + IC or some similiar shite... them builds now dead and buried.

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sidtherat wrote:

i expect two things: a) taht CoCS will remain very strong and the more clever players will find it out sooner than latter (and despite that people will cry-me-a-rivers about CoCSisDED!) b) CoCS will be a build TYPE. not a BETTER version of casters. that will attract other type of players (because currently CoCS are played mostly by people that play THE BEST and only the best - mostly as a self-esteem boost)

Wrong, wrong/true, and wrong.

CoC not remaining strong, cannot read? the advantage the whole skill had (fast spellcasts, made up for the lack of dmg buffing support gems in set usually) now totally rekt...

Will not be a build type, will be a fail type :P I guess can call this still a fail-build, so yeah, a build-type in a way :P And no, not using CoC since is somehow op, but because is extremely fun to mess around with... messing with many gem sets, and spell sets, has been very entertaining during time, has given most fun of all builds I have had. Not even close to as op, as trapper build for example, or many others.

Not considering simple "fun" as "self-esteem-boost", is this normal..? well then, watch out to never enjoy anything, will be a sign of pure mental dick-waving, and about self esteem... what supposed to do? Cry while play this, to avoid this?

And not even close to best builds I have had btw... only few setups op, like cyclone + discharge + blade vortex... could have nerfed those instead imo, without killing this build type 100%... is not that it's like, if use CoC, then automatically op build... if was so, then would understand this nerf (read: killshot, not nerf). cooldown to discharge, would have done the same job imo...

Idunno what everyone else is smoking but the only good CoC build was discharge or anything that abused the shit out of poison.

CoC is now completely unviable as a whole for any build than just nerfing the specific OP combination.