Pathfinder collateral damage of "performance improvements"

Okay, so...master surgeon at 10%...this was balanced around CoC + Blade Vortex + Bladefall or Blade Vortex generating 40+ hits per second. Now with every possible way of generating tons of hits per second being nerfed, it feels like the pathfinder is collateral damage from these performance balance changes.

Was it intended to gut the pathfinder this way? Can her master surgeon node get buffed up in order to compensate for the loss of mechanics to generate many hits per second?

I think its best to wait and see I think it should be fine, even after the changes.

Pathfinder was already considered one of the OP ascendancies. I would consider it lucky they didn't change anything directly for it.

i bet the Pathfinder's node was one of the most important reasons to nerf BV. the performance improvements were just as important but anyone claiming that BV + Master Surgeon was healthy to the game is insane

perma utility flasks? noone sees a problem with that? and btw - im pretty sure that BV + flasks will be just fine even with this nerf.

and it was BV, BV alone that was the culprit. other skills while also having the potential to refill flasks instantly werent that easy and streamlined to use

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sidtherat wrote:

i bet the Pathfinder's node was one of the most important reasons to nerf BV. the performance improvements were just as important but anyone claiming that BV + Master Surgeon was healthy to the game is insane

perma utility flasks? noone sees a problem with that? and btw - im pretty sure that BV + flasks will be just fine even with this nerf.

and it was BV, BV alone that was the culprit. other skills while also having the potential to refill flasks instantly werent that easy and streamlined to use

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Permanent utility flasks are fine when all the other classes get faceroll buffs that never ever stop. Slayer gets lulz AoE. Gladiator gets crazy amounts of block. Champion gets perma fortify, assassin gets obscene crits and permanent power charges, ditto occultist.

Plenty of ascendancy classes get absolutely ridiculous bonuses. Dedicating an entire build to make use of a 10% chance to refill a charge ascendancy bonus should have a reward for that dedication, not a constant nerf every patch.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

i bet the Pathfinder's node was one of the most important reasons to nerf BV. the performance improvements were just as important but anyone claiming that BV + Master Surgeon was healthy to the game is insane

perma utility flasks? noone sees a problem with that? and btw - im pretty sure that BV + flasks will be just fine even with this nerf.

and it was BV, BV alone that was the culprit. other skills while also having the potential to refill flasks instantly werent that easy and streamlined to use

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Permanent utility flasks are fine when all the other classes get faceroll buffs that never ever stop. Slayer gets lulz AoE. Gladiator gets crazy amounts of block. Champion gets perma fortify, assassin gets obscene crits and permanent power charges, ditto occultist.

Plenty of ascendancy classes get absolutely ridiculous bonuses. Dedicating an entire build to make use of a 10% chance to refill a charge ascendancy bonus should have a reward for that dedication, not a constant nerf every patch.

fun fact : all those things you named (perma fortify,power charges etc) arent exclusive to those classes.
its easy to keep up power charges or fortify without those bonuses.

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ciel289 wrote:

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

i bet the Pathfinder's node was one of the most important reasons to nerf BV. the performance improvements were just as important but anyone claiming that BV + Master Surgeon was healthy to the game is insane

perma utility flasks? noone sees a problem with that? and btw - im pretty sure that BV + flasks will be just fine even with this nerf.

and it was BV, BV alone that was the culprit. other skills while also having the potential to refill flasks instantly werent that easy and streamlined to use

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Permanent utility flasks are fine when all the other classes get faceroll buffs that never ever stop. Slayer gets lulz AoE. Gladiator gets crazy amounts of block. Champion gets perma fortify, assassin gets obscene crits and permanent power charges, ditto occultist.

Plenty of ascendancy classes get absolutely ridiculous bonuses. Dedicating an entire build to make use of a 10% chance to refill a charge ascendancy bonus should have a reward for that dedication, not a constant nerf every patch.

fun fact : all those things you named (perma fortify,power charges etc) arent exclusive to those classes.
its easy to keep up power charges or fortify without those bonuses.

There are very few ascendancy options that are "unique" to any particular ascendancy class. Want to get elemental conflux? Just add some lightning damage to your fire spells and go crit! Want to get crit outside of assassin? Scale it on tree!

Heck, you can even roll surgeon on most of your magic flasks (outside of diamond) and play a wannabe pathfinder class. Heck, you can even keep up the unique flasks if you kill fast enough, and most likely, can take out a boss in the duration of 2 flask charges.

The one thing that the Pathfinder has on all the other ascendancy classes, that she gives up all of the passive bonuses for (think necromancer commander of darkness, all of assassin's crit, etc.) is that she can sustain unique flasks, including vinktar, for extended periods of time against single-target enemies. Take that away, and unless your MO is going to be to continuously solo long boss fights, then there's no real point to playing pathfinder. Just go assassin and you're going to clear 95% of the content faster that isn't something ridiculous like twinned core, uber atziri, and possibly the guardians/shaper. After all, why even bother with all the flask nonsense if 95% of the content just dies by the time you chug through all your flasks once?

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

The one thing that the Pathfinder has on all the other ascendancy classes, that she gives up all of the passive bonuses for (think necromancer commander of darkness, all of assassin's crit, etc.) is that she can sustain unique flasks, including vinktar, for extended periods of time against single-target enemies. Take that away, and unless your MO is going to be to continuously solo long boss fights, then there's no real point to playing pathfinder. Just go assassin and you're going to clear 95% of the content faster that isn't something ridiculous like twinned core, uber atziri, and possibly the guardians/shaper. After all, why even bother with all the flask nonsense if 95% of the content just dies by the time you chug through all your flasks once?

My opinion on the BV/Pathfinder nerf: It was warranted. Very easy permanent uptime on Vinktar etc is not what I want to see in PoE.

Also: You sort of imply that it is no longer possible to have 100% Vinktar uptime vs single target. I just mathed it and believe it is still too easy.

Edit: Implied mathing was wrong. It is no longer as easy as I thought when writing this post.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

The one thing that the Pathfinder has on all the other ascendancy classes, that she gives up all of the passive bonuses for (think necromancer commander of darkness, all of assassin's crit, etc.) is that she can sustain unique flasks, including vinktar, for extended periods of time against single-target enemies. Take that away, and unless your MO is going to be to continuously solo long boss fights, then there's no real point to playing pathfinder. Just go assassin and you're going to clear 95% of the content faster that isn't something ridiculous like twinned core, uber atziri, and possibly the guardians/shaper. After all, why even bother with all the flask nonsense if 95% of the content just dies by the time you chug through all your flasks once?

My opinion on the BV/Pathfinder nerf: It was warranted. Very easy permanent uptime on Vinktar etc is not what I want to see in PoE.

Also: You sort of imply that it is no longer possible to have 100% Vinktar uptime vs single target. I just mathed it and believe it is still too easy.

Math please. Sounds like you need a 20/20 duration/decreased flask belt, arcane chemistry, 100% crit, and all flask notables (druidic rite, primal spirit, alchemist), and possibly master alchemist for the two small nodes for 20% increased flask charges gained.

Edit: also, why is permanent vinktar wrong on targets that necessitate a sustained vinktar can be counted on one hand. Daresso, Uber Atziri, Core Malachai, and?

A massive amount of a character's tree, gear, and ascendancy class is dedicated to sustaining one flask against a handful of monsters, and yet you begrudge even that?

you are sure good at downplaying what flasks + flask nodes can do

100% uptime vinktars is 50% MORE damage when it matters - outright better than Berserker's 4 asc passives combined without a drawback (because the 'you are shocked' is ignored all the time)

granite/basalt/jade offer more base defences than most players can get from top gear

diamond flask if you happen to use it is an equivalent to hefty crit investment

rumi's is pretty much 100% uptime of capped block + all the safety res flasks can give you when used vs particular damage types

so please.. stop pretending that the bonus you get from that investment is low and is not competitive. it is. you know it, we know it. there is a reason youve played BV+pathfinder: it is BROKEN powerful. and this small nerf (it is SMALL because it really changes little in practice) is just there to make players 'work' for their 100% uptime on utility flasks.

all people liking to abuse mechanics not caring about keeping game helathy will flock to pathfinder+BV just like they did previously. try to play without flasks and tell me how it went despite having these huge advantages of other setups