I will never be good at PoE
" 95% crit isn't RNG except in the very very literal sense. If you're going to be that literal, then you have to deal with RNG until you take resolute technique, because accuracy. Last edited by codetaku on Jul 28, 2016, 8:14:25 AM
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Last edited by Entropic_Fire on Oct 26, 2016, 9:18:31 PM
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" lol, I play build theorycrafting more than I play PoE itself, dead serious, I spend much more than 1 hour planning things, sometimes it's all I do to entertain myself and then my builds suck... | |
" How much HP do people in general think a character needs? 8k? How much life on the passive tree do you need to take to get there? How much armour should a character have? How much armour on the passive tree should a character get? How much life to armor do you need? (ratio) How much chance to block should you get? How can you spec your tree to have the right amount of everything? there's just never enough skill points and things are always too far away from each other, because it's all math, you never really know how much of everything you need Forget about the Trypanon Build, this thread is not about one build, it's about builds in general, it's about "what the fuck I am doing wrong" it's about how do you win at PoE? | |
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Coal48, don't think you are alone in your situation. I thought I was reading about my experiences when I read your original post, and most of your follow-up ones. I've got a 4167 life + 266 ES Blade Vortex + Life/Mana Leech build right now that mows down trash mobs (around 28k DPS), but doesn't have enough defense with 38% armor, 22% evade. I had 10 deaths total up to merciless Malachai. Finishing his 3 pre-bosses and him killed me 19 additional times. This char is stuck at level 73 because I can't make enough experience in Tier 1 normal maps because of the XP penalty for death.
I have another char, an Essence Drain + Contagion build with 3775 life + 1935 ES (which I'm proud of). This char has 2% armor and 19% evade but higher survivability. It's not just because he has more life, so I'm not sure exactly why. (His red life globe doesn't jump around as much, even when the shield is down.) This char gets one-shot noticeably less than the other. His DPS is much less. This char is stuck at level 80 for the same XP penalty reason. Unlike the other I don't usually die on Tier 1-3 maps, but I make so little XP on them, that in the end I still die too much to ever level up again. Both chars use shields. I've never bothered to try merciless Izaro with any char. Thankfully I can say each build I make gets stronger, except I don't really understand how to make a char sturdy, which basically seems to be your problem, too. I thought my most recent one (4100 life, blade vortex) would be it with my armor and evasion, but it's not even close (notably worse than the one with little armor and evasion). I will mention that part of my rage quits come from disliking the style of boss fights this game has. Being able to pick up the fight where I left off means that I don't feel that killing a boss is an accomplishment at all—only killing him without dying (merciless Dominus felt really good!). It also means that bosses can be made much harder without regard to precisely setting how strong they are (which is somewhat impossible due to RNG). |
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" This is the issue with the thought process here. You think that "benchmarks" must be obtained and instead its mostly conditional statements. "How much HP do people in general think a character needs? 8k?" >>> How much HP for what? Evasion characters? Armour based characters? What are they doing? Speed farming Gorges, doing 40%+ Pack Size Red Maps, doing Uber Lab, farming Cruel Ledge? Layered defenses kicks in here as well. There is no "in general" type of approach here, each character's stats are going to be a direct reflection (after tuning) of what role they were meant to do. There is no magical ratio that you need to achieve to make things happen. There is no magical block chance you should get (in reality, these figures are "as high as you can"). Tree is based off of experience and not theorycraft tbh. You can make a good tree, but in reality you need gameplay and practice to figure out what needs to be tweaked. And you need good game knowledge so you can refine and retune. I mean hell, you can kill Atziri with 1 HP if you know the mechanics of the game and what you are doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loTfJoBZcPI Fake Temp League Elitists LUL
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Last edited by Entropic_Fire on Oct 26, 2016, 9:20:47 PM
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I think that my problem is that I do not understand the math behind the Tree. % life; %armor; % damage etc. I don't really know which numbers are being changed. When I was was at 2000 life and I took two +5% life nodes, my life didn't go up 200 points. The easy path is to follow another's design and not understand what it is doing. The math of PoE is very complicated. I'm not sure that my ancient brain will ever fully get it, but moving into the merciless lab and maps is a sure way to find out where your weaknesses are.
Isn't there a tree builder somewhere that shows you important stuff as you build a design? "Gratitude is wine for the soul. Go on. Get drunk." Rumi
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" As Sarang said, this isn’t really the right approach. Different builds in different places have different ways of dealing with threats. An Acro/Evasion character in Kintsugi using archery or Frost Blades can get away with, effectively, no armor at all because they mitigate damage through not taking it, and catching what few spikes do get through on Kintsugi’s ‘Recently’ reduction. There’s no plug-the-numbers formula for spitting out a good build every time, especially since ‘good build’ is as much if not more dependent on gear than it is tree and skills. There’s a few general points to consider, but frankly even those are more guidelines than rules. The other thing is that a lot of your own personal rules are holding you back pretty sharply. You have one skill set-up you like to use – damage skill, CWDT set-up with curses, movement, and other. You hate any sort of RNG spikes, and you tend towards the same build layout with all your builds. You’re consistently using the same approach, and consistently having the same problem – lousy boss-killing. Might maybe be time to vary up the approach? Try Ancestral Warchief in your next melee build. The Chief is boss as hell. Stuff the Chief in a 4-link with Melee Phys, Faster Attacks, and Conc. Effect (or preferably Bloodlust, if your main build Bleeds things), and it adds significant single-target DPS to your build without compromising your regular clearing at all. Drop the Chief on bosses, get extra melee damage for your own attacks and watch the Chief go bananas on the fat angry thing while you do whatever else it is you’re built to do. EK is notoriously weak for single-target. Try splicing Bladefall into the build. Again, drop Bladefall > Conc. Effect > Controlled Destruction > Poison into a 4-link, pop Bladefall on bosses, then scoot away from reprisal and do it again. Once more – bad damage is a huge ‘Less’ modifier to your defenses, because letting things live longer means they have a lot more time to pound their way through whatever you’re staying alive with. If your regular clearing skill is weak on bosses (hint: a lot of the best lawn-mowing skills are going to be weak on bosses), then snag a secondary supplement skill to help beat through the big guys. As for your questions? How much HP do people in general think a character needs? 8k? Depends on how awesome you are, what your other defensive layers are, and what your build does. Melee/point-blank characters usually need more life than ranged characters because they get hit more, which also means they tend to benefit more from armor/flat damage reduction than ranged characters, which tend to benefit more from evasion/Dodge/avoidance since they take a lower overall frequency of hits. if you have to have a benchmark – and as Sarang said, ‘benchmarks’ are not a great way to go about PoE builds – I’d suggest 4k as a minimum for ranged builds, with 5k as a minimum for melee/point-blank. Neither is a hard-and-fast rule. My own personal rule is “enough to avoid as many stuns as possible”, whilst remembering the points below. How much life on the passive tree do you need to take to get there? 150% life on the tree is a good starting point. Less than that tends to require some clever defensive redundancies in your build to compensate; more than that tends to be a higher-level concern. Life is the one exception to the “don’t fill out clusters, just grab just enough points for the notable” rule. Every dinky little 5% Life point is something a lot of players feel is crucial, but filling out those dinky 5ers is something you generally get to in your eighties. Random spitballing? Aim for 120% life by level 50-60, with a good plan to get more whenever you have the opportunity, and shoot for 150-200%. Again, the more time you spend within melee range of enemies, the more life you should be shooting for. How much armour should a character have? As much as you can reasonably get, if your build is an armor build. Armor gets better the more you invest in it, there’s no minimum “okay, you can stop now” breakpoint. The key word is ‘reasonable’. Don’t go ten nodes out of your way for a crappy threebie armor cluster, that’s hugely inefficient. If you have to path, try and path in such a way that you path by armor clusters and can snag them on the way. Ideally, you shouldn’t have to go more than two non-armor ‘road’ nodes to get to any given armor cluster you intend to grab. Also: armor builds do not ‘settle’ for low armor pieces of gear. 400% armor rating applied to a 400-armor chestpiece is 1600 armor. 250% armor rating applied to a 1200-armor chestpiece is 3k armor. 250% armor rating in the tree is eminently doable; 400% is not. Armor builds DO NOT run Tabula Rasa – your chestpiece is your single most important piece of armor and needs to be at least 1k, if not ideally 1200 to 1500, if you want to make an honest stab at armor. Every other piece of gear you have should have armor on it as well. The way armor works, the higher your number is the better the armor works against a wider variety of attacks. Armor isn’t linear – 20k armor is much, much more than twice as effective as 10k armor. How much armour on the passive tree should a character get? Again – as much as you can reasonably grab. Designing a really good passive tree takes more than an hour. Planning your pathing to run by things you need without going so far out of your way that you lose too many points to skillgrimages takes experience and time. How much life to armor do you need? (ratio) There is no Golden Ratio. You get as much life and armor both as you can manage without compromising the rest of your build. Life and armor both are “more is always better” things. The key thing is to ensure you’re not sacrificing too much of your overall resources to life and armor. Remember – bad damage is a “Less” modifier to all your defensive layers, including life and armor. How much chance to block should you get? Are you a block build? If you’re running a 2H build, the usual answer is “none”. While any block chance is technically a plus, block isn’t reliable as a defensive layer until you get enough of it to…well, rely on. If you can only get ten or twenty percent block chance, then don’t bother with block nodes or anything but incidental gear-based block on stuff you were going to use anyways. If you can easily/reasonably get 40+% block chance, then the answer flips to “as much as you can reasonably manage”, up to the cap of 75% block chance. How can you spec your tree to have the right amount of everything? Blood, sweat, tears, copious research, trial and error, painful experience, and the (often post-character) understanding that you will end up with characters that just don’t work. Even high-end streamers, people for whom playing Path of Exile is literally their job, end up with A4M duds sometimes. You end up learning what builds tend to need versus what builds, or you as a player, tend to want. For example: I am a complete and total movespeed ho. I want 60% faster movement whilst standing in my hideout, sans Quicksilver flasks or any other conditional movement. My really early builds would often path four or five nodes out of their way to grab things like Celerity, and do that more than once, because I wanted lightning feeties. This meant those builds often ended up with ten or fifteen or even twenty points spent in weird places that didn’t cover the character’s needs, and as a result they stunk hardcore. Few of them even made it past Cruel, and most ended up stripped and deleted. Nowadays I grab movespeed where I can and as it makes sense, but I do not go more than a node or two out of my way to get it or forego more efficient pathing for the sake of running by a movespeed cluster I could otherwise grab. I still can’t resist the siren call of Avatar of the Hunt for most of my theorycrafted archery builds, but I’ve learned what those sorts of builds tend to need. You need life. You need damage. If you’re running armor, evasion, or other defensive layers primarily in the tree, then you need those nodes. The more good builds you check out in the ‘copious research’ stage, the more you’ll see that the skeletons of most builds on a given class/build type tend to be pretty similar. That’s because those skeletons are what get you the nodes you need, with individual players fleshing out their Wants as they can. There’s no magic “Get good at Path of Exile” formula. If you have a specific build you’re working on, you can post it here or (if you’re feeling brave) in the appropriate class subforum and see what people can do to help you with your tree, with gear suggestions, with gem set-ups, and the like. One of the most important things to remember, though? If something just isn’t working, then don’t keep doing it. Last edited by 1453R on Jul 28, 2016, 2:53:05 PM
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