Is any Arc build viable for end-game?

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dudiobugtron wrote:

Blind halves Izaro's chance to hit. With no evasion, he will have a 95% chance to hit. With blind, it will be 47.5%. Works pretty decent even with no evasion.

Question, if I hit stibnite but Izaro isn't near, if he then walks into the smoke, will he be blind?

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dudiobugtron wrote:

That's like 3k ES per second you should be leeching (a bit less or more depending on his resistance and your penetration). That should definitely be enough though. Are you able to facetank him in the first fight?

Man I'm telling you, I was leeching fast enough only when other mods were inside tendrils. When he was alone there were times that he was hitting me faster than I was leeching until I dropped to 20% so I backed up. I was indeed leeching faster than arc but still not faster than him. Even in the first fight with lieutenants or portals down. No charges, no fonts, no nothing. I'm sure he has some decent resistances (no way I was leeching 3k per sec without penetration) but still I was expecting to leech faster than his damage.

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I had the following stats as assassin:
250k dps (without any flask)
11k es
Grace + ghost reaver + vaal pact + permanent freezing monsters and some flasks for defense.
So my defense was good enough to do most content and hit lvl 97 on hc.

Man, I see your build and it makes me wanna cry :D
But hey, give me double void battery and skyforth and maybe I could reach you :P
Spend currency? Maybe if I sell my heretic's I can buy ONE void battery and if I sell all my other stuff in prophecy MAYBE I can get a second. But skyforth? Out of the question.
I can't reach 10k ES cause, 1st I can't afford an 800es/6l chest and 2nd I have only 213% es increased against you 320% o_O
It's so weird, having so little damage passives giving you so much damage. I guess void batteries pay-off, huh? Not to mention the 9 charges. I will definitely copy some parts of your tree...when I got myself a battery.

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kalkas wrote:

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dudiobugtron wrote:

Blind halves Izaro's chance to hit. With no evasion, he will have a 95% chance to hit. With blind, it will be 47.5%. Works pretty decent even with no evasion.

Question, if I hit stibnite but Izaro isn't near, if he then walks into the smoke, will he be blind?

Yes. Enemies are blind when they are standing in the smoke cloud. So it only works when the smoke cloud is on them.

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kalkas wrote:

Man, I see your build and it makes me wanna cry :D
But hey, give me double void battery and skyforth and maybe I could reach you :P
Spend currency? Maybe if I sell my heretic's I can buy ONE void battery and if I sell all my other stuff in prophecy MAYBE I can get a second. But skyforth? Out of the question.
I can't reach 10k ES cause, 1st I can't afford an 800es/6l chest and 2nd I have only 213% es increased against you 320% o_O
It's so weird, having so little damage passives giving you so much damage. I guess void batteries pay-off, huh? Not to mention the 9 charges. I will definitely copy some parts of your tree...when I got myself a battery.

As I said Skyforth won't increase your damage much or so, it's just a luxury to get charges and have stubs avoidance, played long time without it and the dmg was still very high.
Also empower is a luxury which I bought last, the dmg is nearly same as added lightning damage, the +1 chain is nice though.

The problem with your tree and gear is that you spend a lot points for dmg and even don't get crit capped as assassin. I even had with a 5l (5l was life leech) far over 100k dps.

And yea void battery playing a big roll, also things like call of the brotherhood.

So basically I can just suggest you to improve your tree first, that's one major issue.
After try to replace your cheap gear with better cheap gear.. play.. enjoy.. get void battery.. enjoy arc (1:40Min for a gorge? No problem. Freezing almost everything in endgame maps? No problem.. easy game :D)
And to be honest, I played it last league, so probably the dps would be now already far higher again.

Just take care of reflect, due to the high dps range you should take vinktars and 10k es to survive it more or less easily. :D

Btw heretics as arc? No idea how that should make sense ;o

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Btw heretics as arc? No idea how that should make sense ;o

Pretty sure the veil is not on the arc character. It's just an item the OP owns.

Ok, one cannot simply buy stuff on command. There must be some currency. Right now I have only one heretic's and 400 jewelers. My tree has a lot of damage on it cause I cannot get damage from gear. I made some changes on the tree, dropped a lot of mana(now I'm relying only on warlord's mark). If I get a nice dagger/wand/scepter/battery maybe I can drop some more damage. Right now I think I cannot make any more changes.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

Yes. Enemies are blind when they are standing in the smoke cloud. So it only works when the smoke cloud is on them.

By the way, uber Izaro is down :D Thank you for your tips.
This conversation with everybody made me realize somethings. Have fun.

And to conclude, Arc is viable for end-game. Just too expensive :P

You passive tree isn't very good. 3 points for practical application and then using eye of chayula.
7 points just for the power charge passive in templar area? At the same time many es nodes are not picked up. Sense?

On charachter Matsakonis (if that is the right one) You have cwdt + arctic armour in shield. Cwdt does not work with arctic armour.

I like your helm link. Both curse on hit and power charge. Nice. I will steal that idea :)

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kalkas wrote:

Regen for example. Yes, I'm aware of Zealot's Oath. Have you seen the passive tree lately? All the good regen passive are to far away from ES passives. Having a huge ES pool with the regen that life can have (>10%) means that you're out of passives for other defenses and damage. No, you can't achive the regen that life has with the cost the life pays, whether that cost is a unique or a lots of passives.

On the contrary, you have plenty of passives available for offense.

There is a very good ES regen-tank out there.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1271604

Perfect example. It may be from 2.2, but the same character will work in 2.3.

My currently planned life build is making use of Mjolner and has 20.2% life regen planned, through the use of one Kaom's Way unique ring, Death's Door unique boots, and a corrupt +1 e-charge belt. Though if I were to swap to anything that allowed the use of two Kaom's Way rings, my maximum regen potential would be 25.6%.

But that 20.2% is working against a maximum of 25% elemental damage and 160% of chaos damage, due to my resistances. Immortal Call renders physical damage a non-issue.

My life pool is expected to reach about 6.5-7k at best, with good rares. So I'll have a regen of about 1,300 life at best. Currently I have 5.4 life and only about 80% of my planned regen.

Now an ES build that gets only a meager 10%, which is easy, and gets 10k ES, is going to be regenerating 1,000 ES per second.

The difference is that my ascendancy is oriented towards my regen and mitigation, while the ES build's ascendancy can be oriented towards offense.

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kalkas wrote:

Ok, about the content. All builds can't do all content although I insist that lab is a must have where all other content I consider them a bonus.

And that's your opinion.

Fact is that some builds will not be able to do certain things.

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kalkas wrote:

You must probably joking about life can't go BM. I never done it myself but there are plenty youtube videos that prove it can be and those builds are OP. Really OP. You should check it.

Why don't you link one? Every one that does do it is something done by someone with serious currency to make it work so well. Just as well as low-life or CI builds, and some are PvP oriented.

So let me clarify. I've never seen a BM build work without making use of reservations (low-life) while using less than near perfect gear. There simply are none. At least not that I'm aware of.

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kalkas wrote:

And to get twice as many reservations, as you say, without BM mean that you'll spend a lot of passives in reduced mana reserve passives. Those reservation merely balance the fact that you spend less passive on damage and defense.

No. You can get two reduced reservation wheels and get twice as many, without using gear to further reduce it. Why? Because those reductions apply to your mana as well. So instead of three on mana, you can put four. Instead of two on life, you can put three.

While not literally twice as many reservations, the benefits from having more reservations and the total increase to aura effectiveness makes me count it as doubled.

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kalkas wrote:

Flasks against recharge. Again flasks can be used IN the battle, recharge no.

Flasks are used in battle because that build doesn't stay out of the fight, it stays in it.

CI that relies on recharge is not going to need flasks because it doesn't allow itself to remain in a battle. It makes use of mobility to keep itself away from enemies, and if it can fit in something to slow enemies then that helps immensely.

You're considering only that life has flasks and they can be used in battle. When you compare flasks to recharge, you have to consider the gameplay.

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kalkas wrote:

And ok, maybe there are CI builds that don't have GR, VP, ES on hit. Hard to believe. Hard to believe not that they exist but they are viable enough for end-game.

CI trappers.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1662532

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uchWm14CDpw

The second one is the exact opposite of what you've been saying. CI, incapable of end-game content? He had no trouble with the traps or Izaro-...

In fact, I just realized. He's in the middle of battle, which is when a life build would need flasks, and his recharge is working. Note he is using only two uniques AND they are CHEAP uniques that are easily avaiable.

A general youtube search shows you some good CI builds that are available. I did the same for life but found nothing. I find comparisons to low-life against mana "magic-find" builds, "when to go BM", and older videos of lower level play.

Nothing of end-game content. Yet CI has it readily available.

Hard to believe? You should find it easy to believe that CI and low-life can stomp everything but BM cannot.

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kalkas wrote:

And by the way, you can't compare life gain on hit with ES gain on hit from jewels.

Yes you can, and should.

Why wouldn't you compare a support gem with some 40 LGOH to ten jewels each with about 2 ESGOH?

ES has half as much GOH but has more inherent leech rate. It balances out.

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kalkas wrote:

Life gain on hit has way bigger numbers AND it can be used with spells.

LGOH works with spells only if you make use of Cybil's Paw, and it only works with life. I know of it all too well. It has been my bread and butter for power-leveling and stomping end-game content since before acro-block's death nerf.

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kalkas wrote:

Solaris Lorica? Useless.

Chaos damage not bypassing ES is not useless.

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kalkas wrote:

And as for the stuns, you can't avoid stun-lock just with the 50% stun-avoidance. Again, also useless.

While you are stunned, it is not useless. The inherent stun avoidance in and of itself isn't good. But when you get some stun avoidance on top of it, including raw evasion, it becomes quite useful.

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kalkas wrote:

No man, life has way more advantages than ES. I'm open to counter-arguments but gave me none.

No, it is you who isn't doing anything new. All you offer is "it's useless", even after I gave facts.

You let me know when you come up with something new.

You seem to be up against quite the adversary there Natharias :)

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kalkas wrote:

Man I'm telling you, I was leeching fast enough only when other mods were inside tendrils. When he was alone there were times that he was hitting me faster than I was leeching until I dropped to 20% so I backed up. I was indeed leeching faster than arc but still not faster than him. Even in the first fight with lieutenants or portals down. No charges, no fonts, no nothing. I'm sure he has some decent resistances (no way I was leeching 3k per sec without penetration) but still I was expecting to leech faster than his damage.

Could you, please, share what were your gem links at that point?

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So let me clarify. I've never seen a BM build work without making use of reservations (low-life) while using less than near perfect gear. There simply are none. At least not that I'm aware of.

Lots of people pick up BM when they play Explosive Arrow.