Nuro's Harp feedback and build discussion thread.

This post is intended to be three things:

1. A half-assed build guide if you want to copy my build with the namesake of the thread.
2. A discussion of various builds that have been or could be tried with the bow.
3. My personal feedback having used the bow from level 68 to now level 86.

My post may end up, by content, more build than feedback - but I think it belongs in feedback. I'd much rather this thread be about the Bow, conceptually - and my build description is necessary for this. People need to know what I tried (and hopefully what others have tried) before we talk about things that could make the bow do this or that in terms of goals for the game.

For anyone late to the party, this is what we're talking about:



- Part 1 - Overview and my build.

- Overview

Every league there is an item or skill gem that calls out to me as if it wants me to build around it. In the past, this calling has led me to a Sire of Shards build, and multiple tri curse blasphemy builds. This league it was Nuro's Harp. This calling actually goes back to Oro's Sacrifice sword. The idea of a weapon that 'cheats' by having it's base damage be all elemental is very appealing to me. It really set my mind wandering pre Prophecy, and I had 3 builds in mind for this bow.

But I rarely stop there when planning my builds, and I'm always looking to try new things, so I shoehorned some other quirky things that I've been wanting to try. The first is a CI + VP + GR character (All energy shield, instant life leech, life leech applies to energy shield). The second was Scion. I haven't played much Scion since Ascendancy, and saw a lot of people fretting over how bad it would be post Berzerker life leech change. They were (and still are) concerned about how relatively bad a new start on the tree is compared to what other classes get for 8 Ascendancy points.

I include that last paragraph to illustrate how my feedback has been colored by other choices I've made. Going Chaos Innoculation has possibly cost me efficiencies at some points on the tree. Going Scion might not be ideal. There is almost certainly a better, higher dps Nuro's build out there. I've done ok with mine, but others will surely squeeze more out of it.

- The Build

Tree: poeurl.com/HLr

This is my current tree, although I'm open to suggestions/improvements. I have used 40+ regrets trying out different combinations of skill points since hitting level 80, and this is what I've settled into. The leech (Vitality Void) wheel makes the Ghost Reaver and Vaal Pact worth it - I can do ele reflect maps with no slowdown. I use the tree to get to the Duelist starting point, Slayer is the only option for this imo, but I'm quite happy with it.

Stats:

CHC 44.33%
CHM 435%
Sheet dps 42,100
Sheet dps with flasks popped (90%+ uptime) 48,400
Sheet dps with Rallying cry (if you want to bother with it) 50,700

I also use a Diamond flask, so that is some hidden dps. I don't run cold pen, but do hard cast Frostbite for map bosses and super resistant yellows.

ES: 5605 (could be much higher, but more discussion on that later)
AR: 382
EV: 1501

Gear:



I never planned on relying on flasks as much as I've ended up relying on them, but they represent a 25%+ dps boost when you factor in the Diamond Flask.

I used ~25 chaos rolling the helm. I wasn't specifically going for the +2 minions, but it happened to come with 3 other properties I did want. Would probably prefer accuracy, but tbh, the zombie levels are nice to have, they don't die very often anymore.

I will be replacing the CWDT set up with vaal grace, vaal haste, and vaal summon skeletons with Inc Duration. I tried to make a worthwhile CWDT, and the one in my links that you see is ok, I just don't get hit very often.

- Part 2 - Other builds I considered (please post yours if you thought about any!)

Templar/Witch summoner with a zombie focus so they could enjoy the consecrated ground.
Templar point blank crit Inquisitor.
Now that I've seen what flasks can add to the build, possibly trying this as a Raider.

- Part 3 - My feedback

[what I like]



[what I dislike]



- Overall opinions of what I wish were different (again - disclaimer - it could be that there is a Nuro's build out there that does 300k sheet dps and I'm just bad, and all of the following opinions are bullshit. If that's the case, by all means, call me bad at the game.)

*Mods that reduce your damage are crushing, especially when stacked. It seems like builds using Nuro's can't afford to be clever with support gems. I need everything I've got just to cross 40k damage. Other builds that hit 80k+ without breaking a sweat have the freedom of dealing chaos damage, swapping out support gems dynamically to suit a map, or converting their damage in other ways. I feel like those options are super limited here.

While that is an obvious drawback that I expected going into creating my character, you'd think that you would get a positive that helps make up for that. For instance, Oro's gets insanely high base damage. Perhaps this item could have had a bigger downside (southbound gloves come to mind) in order to give it more raw power.

To get back to talking about map mods - 60% cold resist is a big reduction, I haven't even tried 80% yet. Endurance charges are very noticeable. Stacking Enfeeble, Elemental Equalibrium, and other damage dampening mods are brutal when you're scrapping just to hit 40k base damage.

~~The fix~~ higher base damage, or better attack speed would be a start.

*The item seems stuck between being for support and being for damage. Why would you build a support character around this when there are better 2h weapons for support, and great shields that supports can, want to, and do use?

~~The fix~~ make a unique support-character quiver. Maybe then you'd be in business using this as a full support.

*You almost have to go crit to consistently freeze. This cuts off templar and witch, realistically, which would be the best two classes to go if you wanted to run this build with zombies.

*If you play this in good parties, everyone else is slamming the screen killing everything instantly and you don't really get to support them with the two properties

*If you play this in bad parties, you still run the risk of not doing enough damage to shatter enemies and give the party consecrated ground.

~~The fix~~ tie into the bow a way to freeze when you don't crit, this will at least help the second and third issues

*SO MANY of the nodes down by ranger and duelist are for physical damage, and SO MANY other elements of the game only boost phys. The two newest and best elemental damage gems (Elemental Focus and Controlled Destruction) are no-goes for Nuro's.

~~The fix~~ add a property to the bow that reads "increases and reductions to physical damage on your skill tree also apply to cold damage (at half their rate, or 3/4 if needed for balance)"

- Overall and TLDR -

My Nuro's experience has been a wild ride. I leveled up with Storm Cloud and Tempest and was eagerly awaiting throwing on Nuro's Harp and freezing the shit out of some monsters. It didn't quite go as smoothly as planned, but I DID get there.

Who would I recommend this build for? Anyone in Prophecy with a good amount of currency who finds the game too easy and wants a challenge. Anyone who has a ready made level 95 character in standard who has good elemental jewelry and is looking for a new archer experience. Anyone who wants to try and get clever and build a bow wielding summoner that doesn't use Null's Inclination.

Who should stay away from this build? People who don't like trading. People who are spoiled by huge dps builds and don't want a drop-off. Players making their first character of a league.

My big takeaway from the experience is that I wish one of the lackluster properties - the light radius, the consecrated ground, or the chilled ground - was replaced with something offensively powerful. Something like what I wrote above. Or "cast level 1 frostbite upon shattering an enemy". It needs a bit more power I think - for a level 68 Harbinger bow. Because a level 68 weapon sets certain expectations, I think. And those weren't met for me.

TLDR: Nuro's Harp is just alright for me. I don't play any of my characters in standard when the leagues end, and this build won't change that reality. With enough investment (4-5 exalts) you have a playable, shattering, archer build. It doesn't crack the top 5 of powerful builds I've played, but having read up a bit on it, and knowing that it has two 'support' properties, I didn't really expect it to.

I would love to hear other player's experience with the bow.

It would be interesting if the consecrated ground was created on yourself instead, I don't really see any practical uses to that bonus right now. There's a lot of drawbacks but no real benefits, and if you want to deal pure elemental damage, you're better off converting anyway.

Even raw-stat wise the bow looks terribly underbudgeted, the worthless like light radius bonus only make it worse.

Nice concept though but being a high level, niche unique, this thing feels like half of a bow to me.

Cool feedback - I've definitely been interested in this bow, for similar reasons to you, so it's cool to read your experiences.

Split arrow with no pierce or Chain? Interesting. :)
Have you considered using barrage? That would increase your single-target dps a lot, and if you managed to get one or two of those barrage jewels somewhere your pack-clearing could still be similar. Also it might fit thematically with the harp even better than Split arrow (you can imagine someone playing the harp and having arrows fire as they moved their fingers from string to string).

Also I think your dps would go up a decent amount if you managed to get the last 2 ascendancy points! (eg: for deadeye or Assassin.)

Another thing to consider might be getting some curse effectiveness nodes, and/or quality on your temp chains (a 12%-16% temp chains probably only costs a couple of chaos). The slow effect from temp chains stacks really nicely with the chill/chilled ground that the bow gives.

"

Raudram wrote:

It would be interesting if the consecrated ground was created on yourself instead, I don't really see any practical uses to that bonus right now. There's a lot of drawbacks but no real benefits, and if you want to deal pure elemental damage, you're better off converting anyway.

Even raw-stat wise the bow looks terribly underbudgeted, the worthless like light radius bonus only make it worse.

Nice concept though but being a high level, niche unique, this thing feels like half of a bow to me.

I initially thought that as well (conc ground on your location). Can't comment on how useful that would be since I took Vaal Pact. That's one reason why I listed point blank templar in the OP though - dat Zealot's Oath + con ground + using it like a melee shotgun.

In terms of "no real benefits" freezing things is a benefit! I perhaps could have made more noise about that in the OP, but it went on quite enough, and there were a lot more little details I could have mentioned. Freezing things is a very big benefit. That's going to be the main sticking point if GGG ever make any changes to this item, or release any future uniques that heavily modify freeze chance. There's probably a build out there that walks a fine line between a bit underpowered and super overpowered.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

Cool feedback - I've definitely been interested in this bow, for similar reasons to you, so it's cool to read your experiences.

Split arrow with no pierce or Chain? Interesting. :)
Have you considered using barrage? That would increase your single-target dps a lot, and if you managed to get one or two of those barrage jewels somewhere your pack-clearing could still be similar. Also it might fit thematically with the harp even better than Split arrow (you can imagine someone playing the harp and having arrows fire as they moved their fingers from string to string).

Also I think your dps would go up a decent amount if you managed to get the last 2 ascendancy points! (eg: for deadeye or Assassin.)

Another thing to consider might be getting some curse effectiveness nodes, and/or quality on your temp chains (a 12%-16% temp chains probably only costs a couple of chaos). The slow effect from temp chains stacks really nicely with the chill/chilled ground that the bow gives.

Yes! Barrage was the only other thing I considered. I played with it a couple leagues ago though, and despite wanting to fall in love with it, I did not. I also considered that I would have two slots available to 6 link, and that I could run a single target version of Lightning Arrow (with frostwall cheese), Barrage, or even *gasp* Elemental Hit. You'll forgive me if I'm not super enthused about 6 linking my Nuro's for science I hope.

If I keep playing I will buy a 14+ quality pierce gem and level it up, replacing slower projectiles with it. I didn't plan out every facet of the build so I overlooked that one a bit.

I haven't decided what to spend Ascendancy points 7 and 8 on (if I get them at all). A ton of good candidates including Inquisitor, Elementalist, Occultist (for me), Pathfinder, and the two you mentioned.

I'm tossing the temp chains for a Vaal gem as it's not proccing that often. Although the times it is proccing it could be saving me and I just don't realize it :S

"

innervation wrote:

In terms of "no real benefits" freezing things is a benefit!

Well, crits already freeze plus there's gems like Ice Bite and Hypothermia.

I really feel you.

I've been trying to do a build using nuro harp too. and done some extensive testing with it. Sadly the outcome was really bad, the bow lacks the attack speed or the high crit chance or much higer base damage needed for good elemental build.
After playing with it and it's rival (Doomfleth's Prism) I realize that DP is much much stronger and frankly OP for elemental damage.

All the testing i've done as a Templar Inquisitor for the obvious reason.


EDIT 1:
BTW here is the build I've been working with.
Note that I did respec out of some elemental nodes just cause i switched to doomfletch prism, which works better scaling proj/phy damage over proj/ele damage.


gear wise:

"

Miazga wrote:

I really feel you.

I've been trying to do a build using nuro harp too. and done some extensive testing with it. Sadly the outcome was really bad, the bow lacks the attack speed or the high crit chance or much higer base damage needed for good elemental build.
After playing with it and it's rival (Doomfleth's Prism) I realize that DP is much much stronger and frankly OP for elemental damage.

All the testing i've done as a Templar Inquisitor for the obvious reason.

I'm so sad about the item. I know the creator said he wanted to make a Harbinger Bow base because there are none.

But I'm surprised he didn't consider a Thicket Bow, since the bow is, from my perspective, shaped more like a harp than the Harbinger. As it stands, I don't really see a reason to use it in its current state. Beautiful inventory art though.

"

Raudram wrote:

It would be interesting if the consecrated ground was created on yourself instead, I don't really see any practical uses to that bonus right now. There's a lot of drawbacks but no real benefits, and if you want to deal pure elemental damage, you're better off converting anyway.

Even raw-stat wise the bow looks terribly underbudgeted, the worthless like light radius bonus only make it worse.

Nice concept though but being a high level, niche unique, this thing feels like half of a bow to me.

I agree, so many good idea and unique created half ass lame way with no real use.

Half belt, half bow, half boots, etc. Theres 70% or more from total uniques. Some leveling unique way worse then other and not good even for leveling purpose, some middle level uniques much worse then low level uniques, and whats more disappointing when high level unique got no real uses and worse then low level uniques.

I do understand idea of GGG that uniques should not be BIS and ONLY option to play, but how weak they are makes no sense to me, its either super overpowered or absurdly useless weak.

For example Nuro's Harp, if it has 8,5 - 9% crit chance and 20-30% more cold damage it could be good balanced bow, but we will never see it. There a lot more examples, like Redblade Tramplers boots that very very hard to "farm", pretty rare and super duper useless. How fix it? add life and make add phys 300-400% higher and its very good boots with real uses.

I don't really understand why GGG holds back and releases halfassed, worthless uniques that would only work on some niche builds anyway. Yet we get extremely powerful stuff like Reach of the Council, how does the item's budget even work?

The consecrated ground issue also happens to the Inquisitor's bonus and is apparently intended by GGG for some unknown reason, making it entirely worthless for most of builds, yes, even melee builds! I guess all those bow Inquisitor FOTM builds are destroying the game or something.

"

Raudram wrote:

I don't really understand why GGG holds back and releases halfassed, worthless uniques that would only work on some niche builds anyway. Yet we get extremely powerful stuff like Reach of the Council, how does the item's budget even work?

The consecrated ground issue also happens to the Inquisitor's bonus and is apparently intended by GGG for some unknown reason, making it entirely worthless for most of builds, yes, even melee builds! I guess all those bow Inquisitor FOTM builds are destroying the game or something.

Yeah when I saw that GGG messagea about the Consecrated Ground I kinda just shook my head and closed the thread...

And on a lighter note, whoever approved Reach for final release was high as fuck.