Mechanical Questions Thread

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kylegetsspam wrote:
I know crits tend to be all-or-nothing in this game, but does that hold true with Cyclone?

Say I cast it far enough away that my character's going to spin 5 times for 10 total hits. Is the crit check of the first hit going to determine whether or not the next 9 hits crit? Or is each spin (and thus every other hit) checked separately? I'm assuming checking each individual hit is definitely not how it works.


Aye, crit rolls are made per Skill use. Essentially 1 click = 1 crit roll. So if you click far enough to deal 5 Hits, they will all crit or all not crit, assuming of course no distinctions between the targets of the Hits (i.e. Assassin's Mark on some but not all, Ambush or Assassination ascendancy nodes on targets some full life or low life, some not).

It is technically wrong to say that the crit check of the first hit determines whether later hits crit. It is, however, true that if you observe a crit on the first hit, and there are no distinctive chance differences as in previous paragraph, then you know the rest will crit. The truth is simply that the random number used for crit checks is generated before any Hits occur, and all Hits from that Skill use will use the same number.

EDIT: Hopefully this answers Zardex's question as well. Since I really like this topic, I'll just break down the details for fun one more time.

When you Use a Skill, no matter what your chance stats are, you generate a number between 0 and 99.9. Then, this number is compared with your Critical Strike Chance against a certain target. If it is lower, then you crit. If not, you don't crit. This is how all Skills work, regardless of Attack or Spell status.

So, suppose your Firestorm Critical Strike Chance is 20% by default, and you have Ambush ascendancy passive giving you 40% Firestorm Critical Strike Chance against full life enemies. You click Firestorm hot key and roll a...

0.0! Amazing luck! You crit every enemy as 0.0 is less than 20.0

25.9! You crit the full life enemies as 25.9 is less than 40.0 but equal to or greater than 20.0

99.9! Awful. You don't crit any enemies
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Last edited by adghar on Jun 20, 2016, 10:22:45 PM
Does projectile weakness buff the bleeds/poisons caused by the assassin ascendancy nodes?
"Life is like the sea. Its tides and currents sometimes take a man to distant shores that he never dreamed existed."
Hello Mark, thanks for answering our questions. Two quick ones for you...

1. Are bows considered "Two Handed Weapons"? For example do the Slayer's bonuses to "Two Handed Weapons" apply to them? I'm assuming yes, but I ask because Heavy Strike states it works with "Two Handed Weapons" but doesn't work with bows.

2. I've noticed that it is not possible to regenerate to full life when Blood Rage is active, and therefore not possible to gain full-life bonuses or use Melee Damage on Full Life with it. Is this intentional or a bug? If it's intentional, would Zealot's Oath bypass this limitation?
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vaiur wrote:
Does projectile weakness buff the bleeds/poisons caused by the assassin ascendancy nodes?

Yes.
EDIT: If you're applying the bleed/poison with a projectile, it will increase the initial hit which will increase the bleed/poison. It does not double dip however.
IGN: TsuruyaNyro
Last edited by Suzumiyaharuhi on Jun 21, 2016, 1:25:57 PM
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D623932883 wrote:
Hello Mark, thanks for answering our questions. Two quick ones for you...

1. Are bows considered "Two Handed Weapons"? For example do the Slayer's bonuses to "Two Handed Weapons" apply to them? I'm assuming yes, but I ask because Heavy Strike states it works with "Two Handed Weapons" but doesn't work with bows.

2. I've noticed that it is not possible to regenerate to full life when Blood Rage is active, and therefore not possible to gain full-life bonuses or use Melee Damage on Full Life with it. Is this intentional or a bug? If it's intentional, would Zealot's Oath bypass this limitation?

1. According to this thread, the nodes do apply to bows.
2. It's intentional. If you have zealots Oath, and you're es regen > bloodrage degen or you just have an es buffer for bloodrage to use, then yes, full life would work.
IGN: TsuruyaNyro
Last edited by Suzumiyaharuhi on Jun 21, 2016, 1:11:17 PM
hi there.

I'm using the Ascendant Hierophant node and the 20% chance to gain power charge on totemcast seems a bit off? I spam summon totem constantly and rarely get a charge - it seems to be like 1/10 rather than 1/5. I'm just curious if it's working correctly or not, because if it is.. I've made a huge mistake ;D

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Kreathak wrote:
I got a question about The Tempest (the fated version of Stormcloud).
Is the "100% increased Lightning Damage" modifier local or global?
Global
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Kreathak wrote:
And if it's global, why does it behave differently than the "x% increased Physical Damage" modifier despite the similar wording?
Distinguishing between whether a mod is local or global is done by whether that mod could affect the base properties of the item, not other mods it has. Weapons don't have a base value of lightning damage to increase, they do have a value of physical damage to increase.

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WitchKiller wrote:
For each of the following skills, here's my current interpretation, please correct me where possible :)
1. Kinetic Blast's "less Area Damage". This is applied to the initial AoE hit and any DoTs that are caused by the AoE hit.
Yes.
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WitchKiller wrote:
2. Earthquake's "Aftershock deals X% more damage". This is applied to the initial aftershock hit and any DoTs created by the aftershock hit
No. The aftershock is a specific part of the skill that hits things. Degens are inherently not the aftershock.
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WitchKiller wrote:
3. Mirror/Blink Arrow's "Minions deal 75% more damage". This is applied to any hit the clone deals and any DoTs applied by that clone
Correct. "Minion Damage" modifiers work by giving the minion the eqiuvalent "Damage" modifier as a base property.
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WitchKiller wrote:
4. Fire Nova Mine. This works like case 2 described above.
It is the same as case 2, but your description of case 2 was wrong. It only applies to the hit.
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WitchKiller wrote:
5. Flamesurge's "50% more damage against burning enemies". This is applied to the initial hit and any Poison effect on a burning enemy (since it can't ignite)
This is hit-only, like all conditional damage modifiers. Degen can't check those.
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WitchKiller wrote:
6. Shield Charge's "200% more damage at maximum charge distance". This is applied to the initial hit and any DoTs the charge may have caused (Voidheart ftw!)
Only the hit has a charge distance. This only applies to the hit.
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WitchKiller wrote:
7. Flameblast's "110% more spell damage per stage". This is applied to the initial hit only and to no DoTs caused by Flameblast as spell damage doesn't affect DoTs.
Correct.

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orlp wrote:
In what order does reflect damage and leech apply
Leech first, then reflect.
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orlp wrote:
and if it's "reflect -> damage", can you hit 0 life and then immediately leech back up?
If it happened in that order, that would not be possible - you'd die. That's why it doesn't happen in that order.

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KawaiiLoli wrote:
While I'm casting a flameblast, does my arctic armour affect reflected damage if I move to cancel flameblast?
No, because you're moving at the time it deals damage.
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KawaiiLoli wrote:
While I'm casting a flameblast, does casting rallying shout affect flameblast damage if I use rallying shout to cancel flameblast cast?
No. Flameblast will go off when you start casting Rallying Cry, not when Rallying Cry takes effect, which is later.

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Buology wrote:
Mark, with Grip of the Council Arcanist Gloves granting minions 20% of their physical damage as bonus cold damage how effective might cold to fire gem be? Does the damage double dip?
No.
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Buology wrote:
I still do not fully understand the order of damages...
...
I do not mind doing the math myself I just do not know the order of operations.
Base damage is worked out by taking the base damage of the skill, plus any relevant additional damage.
Conversion (extra X damage as Y is a form of conversion) all happens before modifiers. Converted damage will continue to be converted to new types if you have more conversion stats - if you have some physical as cold and some cold as fire, you'll have some of your physical damage as fire (via cold).
Damage can be affected by any modifiers which could apply to any of the types it was converted through. So that fire damage that was cold damage that was physical damage, is affected by any modifiers which would apply to physical damage, or to cold damage, or to fire damage. No modifier can apply to the same damage twice.

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TotalNoob69 wrote:
It seems like the Scaeva's crit chance modifier in main hand is local. When talking about Daresso's Passion you said that conditional mods are global. Am I doing math wrong and it is global or it there something unique about this mod?
Technically this would fall under your "something unique about this mod" category, in that this mod is bugged. It's applying multiplicatively, rather than correctly as an additive modifier. This has been fixed locally and will be in a future patch.

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TotalNoob69 wrote:
Why does Cyclone not work when under the effects of Vaal Rain of Arrows when you can still Whirling Blades?
Because Vaal Rain of Arrows removes your movement speed. Cyclone moves you at your movement speed, Whirling Blades ignores movement speed and moves you based on your attack time.

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TotalNoob69 wrote:
Is there some technical limitation that stops degen/regen from being applied in the same step? Right now if you use Blood Rage you sit just below full always.
Taking 10 damage and healing 10 damage each frame is inherently different from taking no damage. Each needs to be processed and can trigger different things (ES recharge inhibition, for example). The functions that apply degen can't apply regen, and vice versa.

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Maximus9229 wrote:
Does increased AoE from tree affect Bacon of Ruins from Elementalist?
The Most Delicious Passive Skill applies elemental proliferation to your hits. This is inherently affected by area modifiers.
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Illviljan wrote:
I was wondering about Glitterdisc and its chance to Avoid Fire Damage. How does it work?
When calculating a hit of damage against you, if it would deal fire damage, you have a chance to not have that damage happen.
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Illviljan wrote:
Is it similar to dodge but works against secondary damage as well?
It's quite dissimilar to dodge - dodge prevents hits, avoiding damage stops some of the damage of a hit. You still will be hit (even if only for 0 damage). They apply in different ways, at different times. It applies to any hit.
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Illviljan wrote:
How are you categorizing these mechanics that averts damage (evade, dodge, avoid, etc.)?
I don't know what you mean by this.

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Lordsidro wrote:
Why does Melee Damage on Full Life not actually scale "melee" damage. It currently only scales Melee "physical" damage. Shouldn't the support be renamed Melee "Physical" Damage on Full Life? Alternatively make it scale all melee damage on full life. It would be really fun and cool to do melee elemental CI attackers.
Support names are indicative in general of what they do. They are explicitly not supposed to be full descriptions of exactly how they work. That's what the stat descriptions on the support are for.

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AllDevourer wrote:
I heard that monsters do have some amount of base armor, even without the blue "Armored" mod. Is that true?
Yes.
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AllDevourer wrote:
Could we know how high is it?
Not really. That depends on all kinds of factors. If I tried to list armour values for every monster at each level they could spawn at, the list would be out of date before I finished it.
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AllDevourer wrote:
Does any type of a monster have some kind of % increased armor, so that for example, the 300-350 additional base armor it gets from a Skullhead if it's raised as a Spectre is in reality something more
Not inherently, no.

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AllDevourer wrote:
Do monsters have passive trees of their own?
No. Monsters do not have passives.
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AllDevourer wrote:
For example, do Undying Grapplers have something like "200% increased life, 100% increased lightning damage" from their tree, and as such the damage they deal with Discharge is at it's highest when Power Charges are being Discharged?
Monster's skills may have such damage modifiers. In addtion, monsters get increased life and damage (among other modifiers) for being magic/rare/unique, and get increased life based on the number of players in the party.

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Ruisleipa wrote:
Does "Singularity" unique items hinder effect boost detonate dead damage?
Yes.
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Ruisleipa wrote:
DoesIf so, is it only for initial hit or also double dip from burn?
Only the hit. Modifiers that are conditional on some state of the enemy cannot affect damage over time.
Hi, i made my RF vortex (not blade vortex! That new vortex) build. I choose pyre ring to convert all cold dmg from vortex to fire. After putting that ring, i still does not see any changes in tooltip (in damage over time, that normal dmg is converting normaly). Is that a bug ? And second think, if it will convert that dot cold dmg into fire, will burning dmg affect that dot ?
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NightMareeee wrote:
Hi, i made my RF vortex (not blade vortex! That new vortex) build. I choose pyre ring to convert all cold dmg from vortex to fire. After putting that ring, i still does not see any changes in tooltip (in damage over time, that normal dmg is converting normaly). Is that a bug ? And second think, if it will convert that dot cold dmg into fire, will burning dmg affect that dot ?

DoT won't be converted. It currently can't.

Edit: Actually, a Question:

Will multipliers apply before or after applicable limits?
If I have, f.Ex., high block, and I pick Acrobatics, will it lessen the block after I hit the block limit, or before, aka, could I sort of "overcap" block rate to keep more than 51% with Acrobatics?
How about Spell-Block when generated from regular Block rate, like with Reckless Defense or Gladiator, in interaction with the above?
Thank you.
Zaanus:
Global chat: Mechanics for A work one way, B for another, C for a third but also with A, B uses C but not A, and D uses A&B but not C

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Isn't a "no" better than an ignore?
Last edited by UnDeaD_CyBorG on Jun 22, 2016, 11:38:56 AM

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