Cutthroat league - how would i do it

I was bored and i started to think about it cause i think it could be fun.

Never gave this idea any thought before, but now i do and this is how i would do it.

Only 1 player can enter other player instance. So for example you want to enter docks, upon clicking on docks you see all other docks instances of other people. You can open new or invade someone else instance. If you choose to enter someone else instance, that instance will close for anyone else. So only you and creator of that instance can be in it. You can fight or flee. If you manage to kill person in that instance you take his gear and can finish that instance in piece and without fear of being attacked.

Upon entering other player map, that player would be notified that someone is on his tail and wants his gear :)

On lower levels level difference between players would be smaller like +-2 levels, and it would increase, like at lvl 80 it would be +-4 or 5 levels.

When it comes to maps you could open maps only in place like eternal lab where you could see other people instances or create your own.

Didn't think much about the drops, but i think they would have to be increased, both IIR and IIQ increased, for how much i dont know.

At this point i think there should be SC league, where on death you dont lose char, but you do lose all gear and jewels. Trading would be the same, parties wouldn't be allowed.

I guess there could be HC league too, but i think losing all gear is enough of penalty, since leveling again would be maybe tedious for me, i am not sure about it yet, but on the other hand leveling again and being attacked every now and then have it's advantages too. As SC you could buy new gear or farm new gear as best you can. Upon death you would keep your gems.


Thats all for now, i think this would be so fun league. Trying to get on top would be hard and staying there even harder :)



But before that leveling should change in end game. White tier maps could get you to lvl 85 max for example, yellow tier maps, so up to T11 maps could get you max to lvl 95 and from 95 you can get exp only in red tier of maps, so only T 12 +.



I would play this league until my eyes would bleed out :)

Looks okay, but I will add some limitations to abuse:

+ You wont know whos playing on invaded maps. Yo will be asigned randomly to the map played with someone with a similar threat/level to you. A higher level, a higher chance to be sent to high level areas (you can keep yourself down-level to play on non-top builds, as example)

+ A threat value considering if you kill a lot more than killed last week (weekly restart) again to prevent very skilled players to farm not skilled/ungeared.

+ Maps disabled?. You join random areas generated based on your level to prevent "map leeching" (you open the map and someone else joins for free and destroys it isnt fun). Also, an option could be paying the flat map (yours). Otherwise, players opening maps get ALL the risk, and invaders get none and max potential gain = no one opens maps.

+ Self-found locked league. Being raped by top bought builds when you still have blue items is very unpleasant.

+ I think is more interesing PK-gear destruction than drop. Drop encourages stealing and makes powerful players even stronger. On the other hand, exp loss and drop a "league dogtag token" could be enough. The player with more dogtags wins the league, fair and no frustrating situations, encourages defeated players to keep playing and learning not only "the farmers".

+ Party play, if you run in party you can get invaded by parties. Some setups are worst for duels but good as support in parties. Not all people likes to duel.

+ If you DC to scape or go town, you drop a dogtag despite you defeated or not.

The idea of enforcing 1v1 is frankly horrible. If FFA is possible, a high-level invading a low-level still carries some risk, because third character can invade and threaten the higher-level character. Under your system there is essentially zero risk to finding a player at the bottom edge of your level threshold and invading them. Your system promotes and protects one-sided conflicts with minimal variance.

The correct solution to the Cutthroat problem is to NEVER enforce restrictions on entering an instance, but to auto-ally players if the level difference between them is too great. This would ensure that any player could be preyed upon at any time, without using level restrictions on the instance to protect themselves.

As a side note: I also think losing gear on death is actually a bad idea in CT (prevents revenge-killing your killer), and would rather see a communication of dropping your non-equipped inventory AND no stash.

All this sounds good.

Let me just wait for you to invade my instance, stack a bunch of overbuffed mines and just one shot rape you when you get close to me (I can even do an automatic booby trap with spell totem + detonate mines ^^). Seems like a lot of fun...

Unfortunatly the state of PvP in the game is so horrible right now(trust me, i'm part of the 25-30 people interested in it) that anything related to it would be an absolute ocean of tears and reddit rants.

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Halugar wrote:

Looks okay, but I will add some limitations to abuse:

+ You wont know whos playing on invaded maps. Yo will be asigned randomly to the map played with someone with a similar threat/level to you. A higher level, a higher chance to be sent to high level areas (you can keep yourself down-level to play on non-top builds, as example)

+ A threat value considering if you kill a lot more than killed last week (weekly restart) again to prevent very skilled players to farm not skilled/ungeared.

+ Maps disabled?. You join random areas generated based on your level to prevent "map leeching" (you open the map and someone else joins for free and destroys it isnt fun). Also, an option could be paying the flat map (yours). Otherwise, players opening maps get ALL the risk, and invaders get none and max potential gain = no one opens maps.

+ Self-found locked league. Being raped by top bought builds when you still have blue items is very unpleasant.

+ I think is more interesing PK-gear destruction than drop. Drop encourages stealing and makes powerful players even stronger. On the other hand, exp loss and drop a "league dogtag token" could be enough. The player with more dogtags wins the league, fair and no frustrating situations, encourages defeated players to keep playing and learning not only "the farmers".

+ Party play, if you run in party you can get invaded by parties. Some setups are worst for duels but good as support in parties. Not all people likes to duel.

+ If you DC to scape or go town, you drop a dogtag despite you defeated or not.

1. + i agree, it's better that you dont know the name of the player you are invading. You just see opened instance and that someone is in there.

2. + my idea is that this would be perma league, without rests or anything

3. + I dont like idea of random maps and putting you in random map close to your level, i prefer managing map pool and pacing yourself. But your point is valid, my solution would be that if you choose to invade someone's map, next map you go in must be opened by you. So you can invade 1 map, but next map need to be opened by you. If you invade T8 map, you need to open T8 map next.

4.+ Nah, SSF would not be good, you need to be able to buy gear. What prevents being raped by geared chars is level difference. more about this in 5.

5. + I agree, winner shouldn't get all gear from defeated, maybe winner gets 1 randomly chosen item from defeated, or maybe defeated player lose 1 item randomly - gets destroyed. I dont like dogtags as this league would be perma.

6. + no parties allowed, that would be to abusive and would be to hard to balance

7. + i agree, if you choose to dc or portal to town there should be consequence.....i am just not sure which one yet, need to go to work :)

i like most of your suggestions, ty

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

The idea of enforcing 1v1 is frankly horrible. If FFA is possible, a high-level invading a low-level still carries some risk, because third character can invade and threaten the higher-level character. Under your system there is essentially zero risk to finding a player at the bottom edge of your level threshold and invading them. Your system promotes and protects one-sided conflicts with minimal variance.

The correct solution to the Cutthroat problem is to NEVER enforce restrictions on entering an instance, but to auto-ally players if the level difference between them is too great. This would ensure that any player could be preyed upon at any time, without using level restrictions on the instance to protect themselves.

As a side note: I also think losing gear on death is actually a bad idea in CT (prevents revenge-killing your killer), and would rather see a communication of dropping your non-equipped inventory AND no stash.

you cant invade low lvl char....lvl 40 char can only invade lvl 38-42 chars.....at this point i cant think how would you balance map invading otherwise......ffa would be something like : me lvl 50, then lvl 55 char invades my map, then my friend lvl 75 comes to kill lvl 55, then lvl 90 of that friend comes to kill him, and so on......i think my suggestion cant be more fair

I don't agree with auto-allying, imo you should play alone in this league, no parties.

I agree, losing all gear would be bad, maybe if winner would get 1 item from you randomly, so that there is reward for winner and desire for revenge from defeated.

Also there would have to be consequence for running away from battler, like dc or portal to town, just not sure yet which one.

Someone mentioned farming same player, my suggestion is when you get killed by someone, noone can invade your maps for next 15 min.

And as mentioned above you cant see who is instance, you can only see that someone is in instance. Thats for areas from normal to merc, in maps you can invade someones map, someone that you dont know who that is, but after that it is you who need to open next map of the same tier.

Non-optional permadeath or bust! If it's not a hardcore roguelike PvP(7>P>1; Plvldif<8) environment it won't be epic enough. D: No waypoints or portal scrolls. Zones with naturally respawning mobs so they can persist longer than one play through to facilitate grouping. There would need to be some interesting item that has a chance to drop on player kill to give incentives to play the league, but not necessarily something that gives an advantage in pvp.

I would also give a new character a full set of white or white/magic items and a few skills that are random from a class appropriate list for new characters so they can dive right in. Increased drop rates would probably be necessary at least for lower levels. I'd also disable the stash.

Could be a lot of fun, would be my favorite way to play. Do it GGG!

My point is that whatever level restriction is placed on entering instances, it will be abused. Even if you restrict a level 40 to entering instances with level 38-42, then the level 40 invades an instance with a level 38 and they've secured an advantage. Even if we got rid of your 1v1 rule, the level restriction would make it so a level 41+ could not enter that instance (due to level 38 in it). Instance restrictions ensure that you normally fight players lower level than you and NEVER fight players higher level than you.

This means the correct play is always "wait until a lower level player creates an instance," so entering instances becomes a game of chicken. It's a stifling mechanic.

This is why auto-allying is all but forces. Thematically I don't like it either, but if a level 40 joins an instance with a level 38, you need characters above the 38's threshold but within the 40's threshold to be able to enter. I can't really think of another mechanic to allow this.

I'm totally fine with manual allying bring disabled, of course.

Instead of a zone having a level range based on a player's level it should be based on a system like this:

Zones would not be based directly based on level range, ledge allowing player level 6-10 for example, so zones would not have a level range assigned to them. Instead the level a player's character is at is given a value, the lower the level the lower the value, the higher the level the much higher, some nonlinear relationship, the value. And zones would have a maximum player level value it can have based on monster level. If an instance you would enter that has someone else in it that would cause that zone to exceed its maximum player level value that zone is seen as red showing you can't enter it. In the case of a player making a new instance that is lower than their player level value you could make that instance open, without this restriction, or closed to other players.

This system would allow for a natural way to limit higher level players from entering a zone with lower level people in it without limiting the zone itself and it would allow for a given zone to have a naturally better ratio of lower level to higher level players within a given range, given the ratio of player level value and a zone's maximum player value is appropriate.

Now, the real problem here is this assumes a relatively equal non-character level based power which is not going to be true so for any comparison of level to really work it would have to factor in the average power level of the items as well, adjusting your player level value accordingly.

Edit: A few more examples just for fun; A system like this would allow higher level weaker characters to be a zone more appropriate than a system based on level alone could allow. Also it would be fun if for a zone after some threshold in population based on amount of a zone's player value level filled if one or two relatively powerful players were allowed to enter it as a kind of player controled boss event the rest of the players in the zone could battle against.

Did you just say players could create instances closed to other players in Cutthroat?

Overall though, I guess that might work - although I'd simplify that greatly as "you cannot enter a populated instance unless you're within level threshold of at least 1 residing player." I still like my idea better, because it allows the mouse to find the dog to be safe from the cat, but I can respect how some might consider the lore advantage to trump the mechanics disadvantage.

I still maintain that 1v1 instancing is horrible.

I really don't like permadeath either. Cutthroat is the Super Meat Boy of PoE modes, giving it any stronger of a death penalty than necessary for a theft mechanic seems like inhumane design to me.