Invisible threats + exp loss, the real cancer of this game

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StDrakeX wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

You're all basically saying that core build design needs to passively mitigate invisible threats, or it's a failed build. While this may be true (especially in coop where the entire fucking screen is filled with particle spam and you can't see shit), someone asking for GGG to improve active avoidance mechanics doesn't deserve to be ridiculed.

So OP plays a skill that is meant to offscreen mobs giving them no chance, but is angry when the mobs do the same to him? Where is the justice for the mobs? I know... R-E-F-L-E-C-T, which in this case rekt OP which is the definition of justice.

You talk of a serious real life thing like justice for a game... my god XD Those million supporter tags under you says a lot of your smartness. So i gladly leave you in company of your vain talking, maybe solitude will help you understanding that if DEVS have designed arc to go offscreen (i alternate arc and spark, one day arc, one day spark), there is not any justice FOR THE PLAYERS to be applied ;)
My god.... what funny characters inhabit this forum X'D All the rare "beasts" are here XD

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Vhlad wrote:

Here we have a player asking for greater ability to actively avoid dangers using strategy, threat-response behavior, and twitch skill.

And the responses are: get good, L2P, your build sucks, etc.

Isn't it sad that in the game balance state, as well as from many vocal forum regulars, there's a myopic promotion of builds that passively avoid dangers? If you can't mindlessly spam 1 button and win, your build sucks.

You're all basically saying that core build design needs to passively mitigate invisible threats, or it's a failed build. While this may be true (especially in coop where the entire fucking screen is filled with particle spam and you can't see shit), someone asking for GGG to improve active avoidance mechanics doesn't deserve to be ridiculed.

Epic, like always :) Side note: i'm not the one who is been ridiculized, are instead THEY that ridiculize themselves. Because if they say ridicolous things like "4k life is too little, 5k is good", they are showing to everyone that they doesn't know that it needs -just an example- over 12k ES to survive, say, the simple merciless Malachai's sceptre slam, let alone some map bosses hits. So they are showing that the real expert is Wispo that knows these things, while they are just noobs blindly and implicitly saying that 1k life more would save from everything. Sure guys, take in the face a poison arrow by Sone Beak for example, and after this tell me again that 1k life saves XD
Vhlad for president :)

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mark1030 wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

Isn't it sad that in the game balance state, as well as from many vocal forum regulars, there's a myopic promotion of builds that passively avoid dangers? If you can't mindlessly spam 1 button and win, your build sucks. .

On the contrary, it's the people who are unwilling to use anything but mindlessly spam 1 buton that are builds that suck. If you are getting hurt by reflect and keep holding down that 1 button, you need to play smarter. Slow down your attacks so you have time to recover life between hits, or use flasks, or use alternate skills, or use proxies like traps/totems, or even skip the monster. People often say they are one shot when that's just not the case. In this case I don't think one shot reflect is happening. He's got 80 resist, not insane damage, and decent life. He shouldn't be getting one shot. And he's got options if he does get more damage. Purity would give him another 4 max resist. Flasks would give him another 6. The tree he linked doesn't have any crit multiplier. But at 4100 life, he'd need to do 146k damage to one shot himself. Adding purity (84% res), he'd need to hit for 183k to one shot himself. After that he'd need to get more life or use flasks. With a flask up putting the resist up to 90%, he'd have to hit for just under 292k to get one shot.

You should count the ascendancy, maybe i was under pendulum of destruction...
The possibility that mine was a crit....
That was a spark that hitted with its upper damage scale...

See what is the bad mechanic here? I synthetize in one line: "You can have low damage on purpose, overcapped resist on purpose, low cast speed on purpose... but at some point you MUST die. Not for your fault. By invisible threats. But you must just die"

This is not the right way to balance a game. Players should be posed in condition of overcome threats... not instead "die by them and just shut up", even without seeing them at all

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Andrius319 wrote:

I was wondering how long those unmatured pages of replies will continue. I was kind of baffled of such volume of it.

Glad to see some more serious comments kicking in.

On my note, vaal pact + life leech became too much mandatory. There are some other decisions like heavy armor juggernaut and phys attacker or on some niche circumstances max res pushed to 85%+ with elemental builds, but generally it's life leech + vaal pact. It's like requirement to do endgame, basically every non chaos spell caster builds have life leech gem which makes me thinking why there is 6 links in the first place, they might just drop it to 5...

With upcoming patch, with 50% reduced reflected damage it might bring more options, besides slapping in life leech gem.

The thing is... no vaal pact saves from one shots (see the devourer i have talked about :/ )

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Jaille wrote:

So many obnoxious people in here lol. Makes me wonder why they even browse this section.

OP there's a unique ring you could get that reduces the reflected damage. Running blasphemy+temporal chains would help a lot against devourers and pretty much everything. Porcupines will always be nasty with some map mods though.

Yes gentle Jaille, i know, Cybil's lament. I have it, i'll begin to use :)

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Emphasy wrote:

Well if a single reflect rare kills you offscreen there is something wrong. This never happened to any of my builds and I rarely used Vaal Pact. The non-map mod reflect is so weak and only a single item that even regular leech without vaal pact is enough. Considering if it is offscreen that you should be hitting a lot of enemies on the screen as well leech should keep you alive. With Spelldodge and 75+% lightning resistance there is not much leech that is needed to counter it and it doesn't really kill all that quickly.

And porcupines... unless a rare explodes the damage isn't too problematic. It usually is more annoying, than dangerous, exspecially since the hardly hit offscreen, because they are offset from each other and the player is a very small target.

Those porcupines were in a tight corridor, and so the spikes arrived "in a barrage" ^.^''' I only ask to SEE my enemies :/

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Vhlad wrote:

Spark has a very wide damage range, and even characters without crit investment can still crit. I don't know what the upper damage range on the OP's 27k tooltip spark is, but with shock it increases by 50%. With sufficient penetration (negative resists) this increases further. With curses like projectile weakness or assassin's mark it increases further. With a crit it increases. And as an elementalist, 40% of the time they're doing 100% increased damage. As you can see, even with just 27k tooltip when RNG aligns you can absolutely take reflect from a 100k+ hit, and since spark lasts a couple seconds and can hit the same monster multiple times after it bounces, you can take a lot of reflected hits within a typical reaction time window.

Exactly :) But no, for some "experts" i got to GIT GUD.... ^.^''''
"""""Maybe""""" are THEY that gotta do something: A STUDY OF THE GAME'S MECHANICS, for example ^.^

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Crusader_of_Sorrow wrote:

Offscreen kill mobs, don't want to be offscreen hit. You are offset by this, right. But if you think about it, you're not supposed to offscreen all content, you are the one making the mobs invisible by doing that. It is more like a mechanic you have to think about before using, which is "offscreen kill", than a game issue.

So i am shooting monkey to the right side, a pair of sparks bounce "on their own will" and goes to the left, and the fault is mine. Seems legit ^.^

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Wispo wrote:

ONESHOTS

REAL main problem is: WHY THE 90% OF THE THINGS THAT KILLS YOU, ARE NOT VISIBLE?

Dont forget that some AUDIBLE warns will help (a noise when loading bearers, oftenly really hard to see in batlle turmoil, specially if playing in parties or a noise when devourers dig towards you).

I liked to play HC, and most of times my deaths are caused by this sources: 1-shoots with life-rich enough builds, I still didnt found the way to level alone to merciless with other defenses/self found, daresso pits and crowded rooms by defense exhaustion (with ES and eva/pots setups), desyncs in room frames/too many monsters present, I think its caused by stun mechanic because as juggernaut I didnt get that problem as often, lag (on old game, now its fair stable for me) and obviously taking soo many risk going to the unknown and no paying atemption to lurking dangers/traps (10%), eventually.

So: 3/5 death sources are technical and 2/5 due to craving and bad preparation XD

I agree that a passive ingame-built proxy/skill to 1-shoots (or a weaker second life if you want) may lead to unkillable chars, but in other hand I have read In some random parties that people use 3rd party stuffs to DC when life goes down automatically. So a GGG trust skill with very long call down wont break the game, only protect you against those random nukes that eventually land.

Considering how damage filter works, the only way to prevent 1-shoots is a high life pool, but I have died anyway with 6000 and 7000 hp xd against strong sources because bigests hits arent filtered by armor or resistances. Against normal damage sources it should be enough with 5000 hp I think. I guess even higher ES top pool may help (I have seen some vids with people runing 15k+ shield pools or I dreamed it xd?), but I never managed to reach this point with a hardcore setup ;)

I just died in one shoot in Springs map dual boss.
7800 hp, 10k def, fortify, arctic armour, toh active and enfeeble wasn`t enough as i belive as i killed 1st the 2nd corpse exploded it.