Im not understanding current talk of coc/chaos nerfs...

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Colonelnut wrote:

You cant nerf the internal time and it has been nerfed a few times already.

you say they cant nerf the internal time and then say that it has been done a few times already implying they can nerf it...

Nerfing CoC is long time overdue. It was nerfed a couple of times already, we all know that, but it is one of the dominant meta builds for a while now (since 2.0 i guess).

Why CoC needs i nerf imho (and yes i build CoC before)
- not that much investment to get it to work (since 2.2 it is a really easy with Ascendancy classes)
- very high survivability with low investment due to vaal pact and Trickster Ascendancy
- very high damage for relativly low investment compared to other builds
- very high endgame scaling potential on top of all of that.

And the biggest reason over all why a nerf is justfied: CoC in limiting skill design since it was released! Every new skill GGG creates has to be balanced around having CoC in mind - this is not healthy for the game and limits design choices and diversity.

I don't say that all CoC builds out there are OP or cheap to build, but some of them like CoC Discharge or CoC EK or CoC Bladefall with Cyclone are. CoC Barrage is a whole other topic


Regarding Chaos meta: Chaos in its current form is to strong compared to other alternatives. Chaos was ment to a niche option which deals much less damage than other damage typs but grants you benefits like you don't have to worry about enemy resistances and reflect. Prior to the chaos damage overhaul chaos damage was in a good spot because it was very hard to scale - after that it became OP because suddenly the scaling potential was there. Full chaos conversion was primarily never intended by GGG's basic design (someone fucked up there really hard i asume) - so now they are going to nerf chaos conversion items accross the board to fix it.

Poison is another problem right now but when they remove every source of double dipping poison (projectie damge, trap damage, mine damage, area damage) and doesn't make it work with more multipliers any more it will be fine and still interesting to play with.


I played both CoC and poison chaos conversion builds in the new leagues and i clearly have to say i want them to be nerfed because they are way to powerfull right now and are not good for the long term health of this game if they stay as they are.

Stop crying people and accept that sometimes GGG has to do an intervention and nerf you beloved stuff to the ground to make the game better and keep it challanging - without challange PoE will die in a short amount of time by players leaving more quickly each league the bring out.

So if you like this game to continue its sucess you have to accept that there will be ajustments from time to time - live with it and if you can't go uninstall and find another game similar to this (i think we all now that most will come back shortly after because there currently isn't a better game than PoE on the market for now)

I have been saying this from 1.0 when trigger gems were introduced. CoC should NEVER be more powerfull than self casting. It should be there for utility. To help you around. But it should not replace as your main attack a self casting spell, and even be far far more powerfull.

That's also how i felt about all ranged-melee skills. Skills like Lightning Strike, Molten Strike, Spectral Throw or even Reave should never be even close to being as powerfull as actual melee skills that needs to engage in actual Melee combat. They should also be there for utility, like taking out Flamebloods, remaining obelisks, possibly bearers etc. A secondary attack. But this ship sailed for too long now.

Chaos is going to be nerfed, deal with it. That's what happened to every OP build in the past, and that's how it should be for skills/builds/playstyles that are clearly FAR more powerfull than others WITH SIMILAR CURRENCY/TIME INVESTMENT. That's what happened with Sporkers, Spectral Throw, Aegis max block etc. The common denominator that was rulling the end game for 2 years were low life builds, and i am glad that they were nerfed as well.

Last two posts nailed it. Well said, guys

Chaos conversion is going to be nerfed, actual pure chaos attacks aren't going to be nerfed since they are actually balanced.

CoC may seem "easy" to nerf but outside of bladefall or discharge it literally is pretty shit. CoC bladefall being good is a whole another story (physical chaos conversion which will be nerfed too) and Coc discharge requires a couple dozen exalts to run effectively end game. (Whatever)

CoC pretty much is worse then self-cast for the vast majority of abilities and more expensive (well less effective) outside of bladefall or discharge, so let's not be blind in "nerfing" something like that. For example CoC discharge would be pretty mediocre without voll's devo amulet. But we can't just removed voll's devo from the game.

CoCS is 'worse' than self cast? in 2.2? you cannot be serious

check Mathil's ground slam CoCS or his fakener to see what is needed for an uber capable CoCS build:

- vagan dagger (cheap) / sceptre (rare)
- vaal pact
+ some +crit gear (not expensive, however as pretty much any good player plays crit the prices can be a tad higher than on non-crit gear)

you do not need Voll's amulet (it ofc helps but it is not required) nor any mirror-tier gear. if you want to do it on a budget pick Assassin for easy max-crit

upcoming Lacerate skill will make Ground Slam CoCS TWICE as good. fun times - just stock on vagan rapiers

"Hey don't nerf the FOTM garbage."

"Instead buff monster's HP and damage so normal builds struggle and get oneshot more often."


Really great ideas, keep them coming!

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sidtherat wrote:

"leave my OP toys alone"

Wow sid, so insightful. Right on point as usual.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Chaos conversion is going to be nerfed, actual pure chaos attacks aren't going to be nerfed since they are actually balanced.

CoC may seem "easy" to nerf but outside of bladefall or discharge it literally is pretty shit.

I was running cold snap/glacial cascade on CoC, and it was pretty damn solid. Very good survivability. Ice nova was OK too. But I haven't played that character at all since ascendancy.