Physical reflect and AOE

Hey there,

I have looked a bit for the answer I was looking for, and was very surprised not to find it anywhere ( there is surely a post in the abyss of the forum, somewhere but .... I'm no archeologist ).
So I apologize if there is an answer somewhere, I guess having a thread to find the answer more easilty can't really hurt anyway.


So here it is : how is the reflected damage calculated / applyed in case of an AOE attack ?


I am putting an old char up to date, one that use using legacy facebreakers and abyssus, and thus .... well physical reflect.
I ran an unidentified low lvl rare map for the lulz and .... almost instant killed myself on reflect ( shocked ground map, the PERFECT COMBINATION in short :], but even while not standing on the shocked ground, it did hurt a lot at the point where it was very dangerous ).
So I guess double reflect, or just physical reflect ( I will roll a blule phys reflect map to check tonight ).
Granite did mitigate part of it, but it was still dangerous.
Could have been other maps mods ( no curse, no minus max res ) to take in consideration also ( I don't think that other mods could actually increase the reflected damage, but .... not 100% sure ).

The attack combination was :
- Infernal blow + Melee splash + Inc area + Melee phys + Added fire + Culling strike

Since I am using Infernal Mantle, and have 78% fire res, that has always been my way to somewhat mitigate elemental reflect on this character ( might not be enough in some cases though )

When the hit occurs, is the reflected damage :
- one big hit which hurts like hell
- one hit for each monster hit

The former would mean armor is kinda pointless ( not much armor on this char, in this case I had 3k without graniting, maybe ~15k with granite, not sure )
The later would mean I can put some specialisation points to get some armor, or run determination, this would work.

So basically, I would like to know if I should just completely stop yoloing lower unidentified rare maps, or if I can tune my character about it.
I could also swap Melee phys or Added fire for phys to lightning, or Fortify .....
Which brings me to my second question :

Does fortify apply before the reflected damage hits ?

Thanks in advance, sorry the post got quite big, I hope it's still clear.

1.)

Leech - Mob 1 reflect - Leech - Mob 2 reflect

Calculated mob by mob.

2.)

Ehrm...? Fortify reduces the reflected damage.

"

Astarte911 wrote:

1.)

Leech - Mob 1 reflect - Leech - Mob 2 reflect

Calculated mob by mob.

2.)

Ehrm...? Fortify reduces the reflected damage.

Thanks ! Pardon me for asking but do you have any source for this, or is it just empirical ?

I might want to try upping my armour, but wearing already Infernal Mantle + Abyssus + Facebreaker + high ES shield, it's not easy, and anything below 4~5k will be not very useful it seems.
Need to go back to determination and drop purity of fire maybe =(

About the second question, I was wondering if the reflect part would not happen before the fortify effect gets triggered.
Since all those things happen when hit, which order would it actually be ?
If fortify happens before the character receives the reflected damage, then maybe switching melee phys to fortify for the map could work also, without too much of an armour improvment needed.

Anyway, thank you

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Damage_reflection

Forty reduces damage when hit. In that case, reflected damage counts toward it (unlike Daresso's Defiance, where the reflected damage doesnt trigger its buff or Aegis ES recharge on block)

"

Astarte911 wrote:

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Damage_reflection

Forty reduces damage when hit. In that case, reflected damage counts toward it (unlike Daresso's Defiance, where the reflected damage doesnt trigger its buff or Aegis ES recharge on block)

Yes, Fortify mitigates reflect if the buff is up .... but this was not my question ^^ :

Does the reflect hit before Fortify gets triggered or not ?

If not, there would be no fortify for the first hit ( assuming the next hit triggering fortify happens within fortify's time limit ).
If yes, then it would work for all hits.

It's the same kind of question ( but this one has already been answered ) than "Does leech happens before reflect" ?
Since leech does, I think that fortify also does, but there is no way to be sure given the informations that I have.

Ah..(I assumed you have perm Forty via Champ)

Since Forty gets triggered on hit and damage calc is done after hit check, i would say yes ;)

"

Astarte911 wrote:

Ah..(I assumed you have perm Forty via Champ)

Since Forty gets triggered on hit and damage calc is done after hit check, i would say yes ;)

I did not specify, but this is a Witch we're talking about :p
It's funny how Duelist kinda implies perma fortify now lol, we'll see if it changes with 2.3.0.

Thank you, so it would indeed seem so.

I would really like to know if there are rules for such an order, a word from a dev would be very nice, in the wiki would be even better !

So, I tried both reflect on blue maps :
- elemental is not really a problem, it would be on -max map of course.
- Physical reflect is pretty dangerous, but I can just switch melee physical damage for physical to lightning, and I completely remove the physical part ! ( 50% infernal mantle, 50% phys to lightning ). Replacing melee physical damage by fortify also helps a lot, that will be the solution for eventual double reflect map I guess, still doable =).

So Fortify seem to take effect before the damage gets reflected.

So At the end, armor will only matter for double reflect maps, and with fortify and granite, it should be manageable I think.

Edit : quoted myself instead of editing initially -__-