Mathvil vlog : Chaos damage

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nephilim1984 wrote:

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Bataille wrote:

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One of the things I have disliked about post-2.0 is the overloading of the "More" multiplier on all of the Support Gems, which indirectly affects how well Chaos can be scaled. Nowadays, you stack a shitload of multipliers and you have your DPS, something that in the past you needed to have well-tuned gear or make sacrifices to obtain.

this. equipping voltaxic has no opportunity cost anymore. the "increased" spell damage/cast speed/etc. you could get from wand & shield or dual wands just doesn't make that much of a difference anymore when you're stacking "more" damage in every support gem.

There is no difference in having "more" damage or "increased" damage... it only matters once you have both stacking. Dunno how this helps the discussion. But I felt like posting this.

true that the more multiplier doesn't have any benefits until ur inc. dmg is over 100% infact it's worse than inc. dmg if u're below 100% ...
however with just starting points at almost most classes and a dagger or w.e say consuming dark in this case since it's a popular conversion item,has up to 60% inc spell dmg each,so u're at about 150% total from just weps and starting points in ur tree ,and alrdy gaining the benefits of the more multiplier of supp. gems

Mathil has an opinion , good for him .

The worst thing GGG can do is change the game because 1 random person said so .

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tryhardgg wrote:

The worst thing GGG can do is change the game because 1 random person said so .

They never did that and they certainly won't start now. However, it isn't just Mathil, it's Mathil, a solid percentage of active players, and most importantly - their balance team. If "GGGbalance inc" held a firm opinion that everything is perfectly fine we could howl ourselves hoarse, the whole shebang along with Mathil and company.

The safe option shouldn't at the same time be the fast option, that's pretty straightforward.

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raics wrote:

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tryhardgg wrote:

The worst thing GGG can do is change the game because 1 random person said so .

They never did that and they certainly won't start now. However, it isn't just Mathil, it's Mathil, a solid percentage of active players, and most importantly - their balance team. If "GGGbalance inc" held a firm opinion that everything is perfectly fine we could howl ourselves hoarse, the whole shebang along with Mathil and company.

It's always been funny to me how seriously people are taking forum posts and how they think forum posts can affect GGG's balance decisions. They have statistics from a huge fucking number of players and builds to draw their conclusions.

It also doesn't matter that much if a build or skill is objectively strong or not. I'm convinced the most important factor is the number of players playing something. Case in point - some super strong but not massively popular skills and playstyles have remained untouched for a long time. The moment everyone and their mom start using something, it gets nerfed.

This is the reason why the most popular streamers act as nuclear nerf missiles. The flock sees a good build, they copy it, it snowballs into build variations and guides in the forum, the game reaches a critical mass at which point someone in GGG says 'that's not good, way too many players are using this' and it's hammer time.

Of course, I don't think this is a solid rule - if there's something way, way too good, without GGG having intended it, it'll of course be looked at. But I think it applies as a general guideline.

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grepman wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

This is the thing, the effect of reflect in practice is how many chaos does it cost your build to never run it, it doesnt actually make playing the game harder for you because you never play reflect maps, it just removes some of your currency. Is that something really meaningful and positive? No, it really isnt when you think about it.

reflect, the old reflect, in practice was something that both made you cap your DPS and make some tough choices. when people were building a high dps build in 2013 or 2014, it was always a question of 'how are you mitigating reflect' ?

but seeing how the game is moving to the 'just have billion of deeps' and 'have all these items' stage, they'll probably remove it altogether.

I guess to some extent. I dunno, looking back I dont think it was rly a good situation, were not in an ideal situation now as power creep as gone bananas but I think some things have moved forward and are better now.

In early open beta I was in the high 80s, like 87/88/89 clearing lvl66/67/68 maps and the only thing that I would worry about dying from was reflect. Now that sort of char is playing 76+ content and is more worried about the actual mobs than killing myself from my own damage.

The game has to get harder, its too easy right now, but I dont think "faceroll all the content then randomly die to reflect because you didnt play that other build that facerolls all the content while being reflect safe" is actually helping to make the game harder. I dont think "pay 2 extra chaos per map roll because you cant run ele reflect on your build" makes the game harder either.

If we are relying on those things to keep the game 'hard' then its a bit of a hollow sham. I think we need the game to get more challenging but this feels like a mechanic that has ceased to stem the dps tide it was designed to counter and isnt really resulting in anything truly challenging. We need proper difficulty, hard mobs with mechanics we engage with rather than facroll or skip depending on which build you chose, imo.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

If we are relying on those things to keep the game 'hard' then its a bit of a hollow sham. I think we need the game to get more challenging but this feels like a mechanic that has ceased to stem the dps tide it was designed to counter and isnt really resulting in anything truly challenging. We need proper difficulty, hard mobs with mechanics we engage with rather than facroll or skip depending on which build you chose, imo.

They certainly did a good thing with boosting physical attacks across the board, it was fairly trivial before (with the exception of a few telegraphed skills) so spells were the only dangerous thing, which put 2H builds at a disadvantage because of very few ways to mitigate them.

As someone that lately almost exclusively plays low tier melee builds and hybrids that can barely scrape up enough dps for decent clear speed, I can say that the game isn't easy once you climb up to mid-high maps. If the enemies don't die instantly they will have a chance to hit you and if they do it will hurt, so survivability is a big concern because you need to somehow survive those 2-3 seconds in the crowd instead of 0,5s or none if you're covering the whole screen with your skills.

Now, devs have two options here:
- Increase monster life yet again, which would cut off some legit builds which suffer from slowish clear speeds.
- Slowly bring down the top end dps without hurting low end, which is a lot trickier to do but won't hurt the build diversity. I have nothing against the glass cannon concept, but a such a build should do maybe two times the dps of a well-rounded one and four times as much as a tank build, not two orders of magnitude more.

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reflect is fucking stupid

All u guys want to rambo into monster w/o care about what mods they have. If u pay attention/ or ur char is good enough or even just well manage - using flask then those single rare monsters with reflect on it cant even dam u guys a bit.
Just saying : mine BV char can do easily t15 both reflect and -max xD.

The game is only easy when u play easy builds. To all the srs'ers, bandwagon trappers, sparkers and lightning arrowers out there. Make your own build from scratch and tell me that the game is still too easy.