[Feedback] RNG should leave (29.04.2016 UPDATE)
" If you cut off the long tail of a distribution curve, there is still winning and losing. Creating a floor does not eliminate losing. Blizzard will say a player "loses" enough after opening 38 packs without a legendary in hearthstone, and forces a legendary on the 39th pack. Every pack you open is still exciting, because you can get epics, goldens, or multiple legendaries per pack. The expected outcome is 1 legendary every 20 packs. So, players feel great if they open a few packs and get 1 or more legendaries. And they still feel bad if they don't get a legendary until that 39th pack, but it's not catastrophic. GGG takes RNG losses to catastrophic levels. It doesn't need to be like that to keep the highs high. Mitigating the lows is important. Blizzard's strategy is just better when it comes to lifetime customer value. They do the same thing in D3 with legendary drops and other entropy systems. Edit: And we're talking about reward/loss RNG now but that's just one side of it. There's too much RNG in PoE's combat mechanics and item balance as well. The affix ranges and combinations on rares creates power differences that GGG seems incapable of balancing around, because there's no challenge to the game at all once you get great gear. One solution is to narrow the RNG boundaries in items and stop releasing ridiculously OP uniques that are "balanced" by rarity. Another is to enable more tailored difficulty settings (D3 solved this problem with greater rifts). GGG tries to tackle it with really RNG damage swings but it's either 0 challenge or 1 shot. The RNG has to be lessened for things to get better. Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client. Last edited by Vhlad on Apr 22, 2016, 9:57:23 PM
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so the goal is to make the player "not feel bad" when they lose RNG roll ?
oh no, the poor sensitive player. he must not ever 'feel bad' while playing a game. do they have bad beat jackpots for roulette, while we're at it ? sorry bud, I want game fucking the players long, hard and deep, not be on some 'oh no our player can possibly feel bad' we will hand out a free charity blowjob. last thing I want is GGG to turn super carebear. some games, like poe and darkest dungeon, rely on rng to be engaging games. RNG makes both of these games. mitigating lows is on the player, not the company who makes games. if a player 'feels bad' enough to rage about RNG, I'll cheer him leaving a 'hardcore' ARPG about grinding for gear. it's their problem not being to able to come in terms with the RNG. just like any poker player who cant handle the 'lows' of bad streaks. " thats pretty much every ARPG without infinity difficulty and infinite gear progresison. ARPGS are about 1)gear 2)grinding first and foremost. ARPGs arent skill games. d3 I have bought does not have infinite difficulty scaling btw, and is the same exact thing. with best gear theres not much 'challenge' Last edited by grepman on Apr 22, 2016, 10:06:50 PM
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" Well said. I'll even extend this a bit more to my liking, if you dont mind, Charan. Winning big means nothing if you cannot lose big. | |
"On everything drop-based, to include crafting, I already said my piece (edit: as has the almighty Kanji). If you disagree, I have no desire to debate it further. There are some things, however, which either aren't under RNG or shouldn't be. The whole "balanced by rarity" concept, for example, is a horrible design philosophy for unique items. While the modifiers on magic or rare monsters should be random (and sometimes rippy), the combat system itself should mostly without randomness... although it's worth noting that evasion entropy already exists. However, the entire OP was focused on drop/crafting randomness, so that's what I covered. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Apr 22, 2016, 10:32:58 PM
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You still feel bad if it takes 39 packs to get that legendary. The goal is absolutely to manage the lows, because in the vast majority of cases a player who experiences too many negative std deviations from the mean too often inevitably becomes a lost customer.
Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client. Last edited by Vhlad on Apr 22, 2016, 10:33:54 PM
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This guy makes me wonder if hes like a bot or some sort of shared account. It makes absolutely no god damn sense that someone farms level 8 masters every league, one of the most tedious things to do in the entire game, is complaining about RNG.
What youre asking for completely defies the logic of an ARPG. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. |
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" 1. I don't 2. yeah, but I consider losing being killed by an enemy, not failing to get an item I want, likewise, I don't consider that I win when luck plays in my favor 3. again, I don't play for the RNG, I play for the rest of the game. The reason why I keep coming back to PoE, just like I came back to Diablo 2 is: -I'm never good enough to play endgame, so I keep on trying and failing in an endless spiral -I want to play the new content, whether it be skills, acts, mechanics etc. -I want to experience the game differently, PoE doesn't allow modding, so only trying different builds is my option I don't play Diablo 3 and find it boring and pointless because there is no "end" to endgame, namely "adventure mode" It's also kind of true for PoE but if I'm able to clear all maps, that means killing all "uber" version of bosses, I'll consider it finished In Diablo 3 there is no real "final boss" 4. yeah I know but I can't help but come back, just like I can't help theorycrafting almost all the time, I just keep thinking about this game, while there are a lot of games out there I could play, I don't feel like it, I just think about what can I do to "beat" this shitty game " yeah I know, "pissing against the wind" is what I do most in my life, whether it be -modify musical instruments because you don't like them the way they are -cheat in video games (to modify gameplay) because you don't like them the way they are -photoshop pornographic drawings because you don't like them the way they are -edit songs because you don't like them the way they are -complain alone about everything else because you don't like things the way they are and you can't do shit to change them (PoE for example, the only time where I complain to someone and not alone) I am really dead serious whenever I say "I hate life" and "I hate myself" PoE is an ARPG yes, but foremost, it's a loot ARPG, and I wish it wasn't, just like I wish Diablo 3 would not be one, pretty much because I hate all the aspects of the loot arpg genre, like point and click controls, inventory tetris and foremost RNG now why I play loot arpg's in the first place, only to want them to not be arpg's after is for the most stupid reason, I grew up playing Diablo 2. I'm really batshit insane, fuck | |
" Well said. This is interesting how many RNG lover we have there, i don't think anyone of them ever roll something with lots of orbs: 10000 fusings and not even 6l, x20 empowers 3lvl and not one 4lvl, 5000 jewellers and not a single 6 sockets, run 100 red maps and get 2-3 return only or non, run 2000 labs and not a single enhancement needed, E.T.C. Also people who defend so hard RNG in PoE don't know how big gap between "lucky" and "unlucky" - this is like two different games with different genre. Lucky got always or almost always return or plus while mapping when unlucky never, lucky roll 6S and 6L with less then 100 jewellers and fusings while unlucky cannot do the same for x100+ times as lucky guy, etc. Also people who love masochism, oh i mean RNG, never grind for real and don't know value of there hard worked orbs and how long it takes to grind them, how "lucky" that plays 1-2h/day get 6S/6L in 1 fusing and how you cannot do the same for 10000, they never learn that feels and how it drive away and kill all moods to play or do something. Either there RNG lovers play 1-2h/day or sit in HO and trade all day/most of time. They don't want that their price go lower or players that play more then they get more orbs/unique/maps/etc. I used so many orbs and gems, play so many maps and labs, search so long for cadiro brodeal and never get anything that "lucky" get, so smart and fair... clearly balanced shit. Necropolis master craft service Necropolis My IGN TreeOfDead
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Let me restate what you are trying to say: "The gap between unlucky and lucky is massive in this game". What does that mean?
Well, the problem is that because of the way probability works you have a small chance to get completely fucked. This is because the way it is implemented is overly simplistic: Let's assume each fusing has a 1/1000 chance to make a 6-link. Then on average it takes you 1000 fusings to get a 6-link. However: - You have an 18% chance to get a 6 link in less than 200 fusings - 18% of people will be insanely lucky. - You have a 5% chance to not have a 6 link after 3000 fusings - 5% of people will be insanely unlucky. GGG could easily fix this by removing the top end, so if you spend e.g. 1300 fusing on an item you have a greatly increased chance to get a 6link. | |
"1. Trade for your 6L and the trade value will be deterministically set at or below the average 6L crafting cost. 2. Even if you hate trading, Vorici gives guaranteed 6L for 1500 Fusing. The game has two solid methods for bypassing RNG here. The reason you're QQing is you don't want to bypass the RNG, you want to gamble yet you still want some kind of mechanism to ensure your eventual victory. I don't really like the way Fusings work, but I sense nothing but entitlement mentality in your argument. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Apr 23, 2016, 9:28:25 AM
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