Help me convince a friend of the flexibility of PoE classes

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databeaver wrote:
We had a brief discussion about Torchlight II where he told he tried the game for the first half of the first act and liked how there are many viable playstyle choices. Melee, ranged, small fast hits or heavy slow hits. Apparently in PoE all bow users must use ice shot because the chill/freeze is too good and nothing else makes sense, especially on hardcore. And duelist is the best class for using a bow even though the early game is really difficult, so there's no point in using a ranger. I showed him the Voltaxic CoC build, to which he commented that at such a high level any build would be effective. And that the player demonstrating the build on the video is clearly playing SC since he's taking big risks (= not running away when at half health). He also commented that "forum builds" are not all that good.

What argument could I make to convince him that PoE has lots and lots of viable build options? Any particularly good build that would make a case against ice shot? All of my own characters use self-made builds so I'm a bit lost here. They're not necessarily the best possible builds either, but good enough to beat the content I've faced with them (with the exception of a few map bosses).


Did he just convinced himself there?
"The launch day went quite well with just a few small hotfixes to address minor problems."

Heist League - GGG
Tell him that he can use the same weapon from level 12 to 90 if he wants to!

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Pillar_of_the_Caged_God
And for real, this weapon achieves decent dps, 50K ! Same than goddess scorned / unleashed or brightbeak abyssus !

Perfectly viable, but low end ;p
I will never be good but always I try to improve.
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nononononono wrote:
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databeaver wrote:
to which he commented that at such a high level any build would be effective

Did he just convinced himself there?

I think his point was that some builds are effective much earlier and become even more effective later on, so it wouldn't make sense to use other builds that only become effective at level 85+. Although apparently some early difficulty is okay, as evidenced by his bow duelist.
Your friend made opinion on diversity of builds in Torchlight II by playing "first half of the first act"? That's some precognition right there. Don't get me wrong, I like T2 a lot, but it's far from being balanced and it's not nearly as deep/diverse as PoE.

To illustrate my point: 2 classes in T2 have straight up 25% all damage reduction for free. They both have ranged skills. % based damage reduction is pretty much the best defense in the game, those classes also have more legendary items with % dam. red. Other type of defenses/resistances become pretty much useless in new game+ and even earlier in the last act, since monster damage grows way way faster, than your ability to stack flat defenses.

Like others have pointed out, it sounds like your friend is just seeking excuses to not play PoE (which is fine). Also Ice Shot is far from being the safest build, that place is firmly held by various flavors of totems.
Why would you lie to your friend ;p

Recomend him a two hand heavy strike build ;o
Last edited by katchwi#2116 on Apr 20, 2016, 7:01:38 AM
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databeaver wrote:
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outspokened wrote:
If I was in your place, I would be introducing him to the skill gem system and the ability to link them + complex passive tree system vs the stat system that Torchlight 2 has. Oh and gear crafting.

He has played PoE and has a level 76 bow duelist, so he knows those things quite well. He just has a rather solid opinion of the viability of alternative options, or a skewed definition of viability.


We already have enough data to conclude that... is a waste of your time to convince him otherwise. After all he has a lvl 76 bow duelist, case is settled.

Seriously though, a waste of time. The whole 'viability' debate is a train wreck. Flexibility and viability are two different things though.
Last edited by knac84#3886 on Apr 20, 2016, 7:38:27 AM
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PaperRat wrote:
Like others have pointed out, it sounds like your friend is just seeking excuses to not play PoE (which is fine).

That's entirely possible. He's a bit sour that when his character died in HC and dropped to standard he lost all influence with masters.
The first thing on which you and your friend must agree, is what the term "flexibilty" means. Make a list. Then in front of each point of the list, fill the pros and cons of both games (PoE / Torchlight II). Then you can compare on a solid and undisputable basis of arguments.
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databeaver wrote:
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PaperRat wrote:
Like others have pointed out, it sounds like your friend is just seeking excuses to not play PoE (which is fine).

That's entirely possible. He's a bit sour that when his character died in HC and dropped to standard he lost all influence with masters.


Ah, the good old "can't play softcore cause it's for scrubs, can't play hardcore cause progress is lost when you die" conundrum :).
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PaperRat wrote:
Ah, the good old "can't play softcore cause it's for scrubs, can't play hardcore cause progress is lost when you die" conundrum :).

Well I guess he'd still have his influence on HC, but it didn't transfer over to standard so he doesn't want to play with me. And I don't want to play HC because losing weeks of progress to a single mistake or even worse, a network hiccup doesn't sound at all appealing to me.

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