GGG, can we get some answers on Conversion please?

Yeah, I have difficulties finding good phrases for the "damage taken as"-process as well.
"
Geisalt wrote:
it's an insane reduction. If you have fortify, this damage is reduced by a 20% again. If you have arctic armour and or endurance charges, only the physical part will be reduced, before fortify!

With both, it will works like this :
arctic armour 13% reduced phys taken + 3 endurance charges 15% = 28% reduction of the physical damage taken AFTER the conversion and armour.

so 450 - 28% = 324 physical damage taken.
324 physical + 300+ 135 = 759, reduced by fortify 20% = 607.2

That's not how the Endurance Charges and Arctic Armor work.

The Reduced Physical Damage Taken (from Endurance Charges, Talismans, Soul of Steel, etc.) is the SAME as that given by Armour, and is added to the reduction amount from Armour. So in your example the 900 physical damage gets reduced by 50% by the Armour to 450, so you'd add the amount from Endurance Charges to that 50%. (So for 3 endurance charges that'd be 12%, so it'd reduce the 900 by 62% making it 342.)

That's what makes Reduced Physical Damage Taken so strong, is that it's additive to Armour, making it really strong against really big Physical hits.


Arctic Armor is LESS physical damage taken, it's a separate modifier, but you are right that it is calculated at the end.
IGN: Heavenly_Tribulation
Send me a PM on here, I check it all the time :)
Last edited by Sheriff_K on Feb 18, 2016, 5:10:17 PM
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If I use a weapon with a Herald active, is the Herald's added damage applied before/after/simultaniously (with) the hit?
No, it is not.

It's entirely independent of the hit, and does not apply to the hit. Added damage is a stat that modifies a skill. Having that stat changes the damage value of your skill. When the skill hits something, it uses the current damage value to do the hit, which includes any stats that affect the skill's damage, including added damage.

To be clear, Herald of Ice and Herald of Thunder provide added cold/lightning damage to attacks and to spells, respectively. Herald of Ash does not provide added damage at all, but it's "Gain x% of physical damage gained as extra fire damage" stat differs in what it does, not how it does it, so the same is true of it as well.

"
How exactly are Conversion rules applied? If I use, let's say, "Arc" with "The Consuming Dark" dagger + "Call of the Brotherhood" ring + "Pyre" ring, how can I calculate the damage? I did this and the tooltip went nuts and pretty confusing.
I do not have time to do an in-depth example with these exact items here at the moment. Could you check out the detailed example on the wiki to start with, and explain if there's something there you don't understand?
Also potentially of use: my old post quoted here (in the spoiler). The original post is old enough that I'm having trouble finding it.

"
If I use "Lightning Coil" + "Taste of Hate", how does the Conversion work?
There is no Convesrion in your example. None of those items perform damage (or other) Conversion. That's why they don't say "Convert" anywhere.
Lightning Coil grants "30% of Physical Damage taken as Lightning Damage"
Taste of Hate grants "30% of Physical Damage taken as Cold Damage during flask effect"
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Which one is applied before/after?
None of them. All "X Damage taken as Y" modifiers are simultaneous, they are the same operation.

"
Do I end up taking actually more damage?
The "Damage taken as" modifiers will not inherently change the total amount of damage in this case (only the type of some of it), but whether you end up actually taking more damage as a result of this change depends on your resistances, armour, and other forms of mitigation to certain damage types.

"
Does it subtract from the "remaining" Physical Damage taken?
I don't know what you mean by this? Only 40% of the original Physical Damage of the hit will be taken as physical damage in this example, if that's what you mean.

"
What if I had 3 Penetration gems (1 from each element) socketed with a Spell and somehow were to convert it into Fire, Cold and Lightning?
You need to be more clear about what you mean here. My best guess is you mean a physical spell (since that's the only case for which you can convert to all those elements), and you are converting some of the physical damage to lightning, some to cold, and some to fire. If that's not what you mean, you'll have to clarify.
In such a case, the damage converted to lightning is lightning damage, and affected by lightning resistance, and the same is true of the other two elements.

"
If I then hit a mob with it, does the e.g. Fire Damage account for the penetration at 100%? Or does it first get converted and then only the remaining damage accounts for the penetration?
Really not sure what you're asking here. You're going to need to be more specific, both about what's happening and where your numbers come from.

"
Is "double-dipping" possible? E.g. I use a Cold Spell socketed with Cold Penetration and Fire Penetration in combination with a "Pyre" ring?
100% of Cold Damage is converted to Fire Damage, so will be dealt to the enemy's fire resistance (unless the enemy has a "Fire Damage taken as..." modifier to change this). Since there's no Cold Damage dealt, cold resistance does nothing.


For future reference (since it seems like you're going to have more such posts soon), it would be best in questions such as these to not just name a particular item or gem, but to also quote the specific stat you care about and it's value. This makes it much easier to answer without having to constantly look things up, makes it easier for people to follow without doing the same, and helps ensure the post is still accurate in the future (i.e. if we change how an item works, people searching in the future for information on it's mechanics can see that the old posts were talking about an old stat rather than the "current" version if the stats are made clear).
Don't assume everyone knows every item, especially Devs, who might have known an item by a different name for years, or known a different item by the same name before they were swapped/rewoked/etc.
That's an incredibly patient reply to a rather annoyingly unresearched set of questions.
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Sheriff_K wrote:
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Geisalt wrote:
it's an insane reduction. If you have fortify, this damage is reduced by a 20% again. If you have arctic armour and or endurance charges, only the physical part will be reduced, before fortify!

With both, it will works like this :
arctic armour 13% reduced phys taken + 3 endurance charges 15% = 28% reduction of the physical damage taken AFTER the conversion and armour.

so 450 - 28% = 324 physical damage taken.
324 physical + 300+ 135 = 759, reduced by fortify 20% = 607.2

That's not how the Endurance Charges and Arctic Armor work.

The Reduced Physical Damage Taken (from Endurance Charges, Talismans, Soul of Steel, etc.) is the SAME as that given by Armour, and is added to the reduction amount from Armour. So in your example the 900 physical damage gets reduced by 50% by the Armour to 450, so you'd add the amount from Endurance Charges to that 50%. (So for 3 endurance charges that'd be 12%, so it'd reduce the 900 by 62% making it 342.)

That's what makes Reduced Physical Damage Taken so strong, is that it's additive to Armour, making it really strong against really big Physical hits.


Arctic Armor is LESS physical damage taken, it's a separate modifier, but you are right that it is calculated at the end.


Thank you ! imma modificate my post right now !

edit
i modified the post.

and it's fun, Captain is now on probation... Hmm i wonder what happend.
I will never be good but always I try to improve.
Last edited by Geisalt on Feb 19, 2016, 12:56:06 AM
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Mark_GGG wrote:
(...)


I have additional questions on this topic :
About the "50% of [element 1] Damage taken as [element 2] Damage" implicit modifier that can be found on Avian Twins Talisman Tier 2 talismans (and on Greatwolf Talisman too), I've read that only damage taken from a hit was altered by this, could you please confirm (or deny) it?
If you confirm it, could you please tell us in which cases other than Damage over Time this nuance can be of importance?

Also, is it possible to have two different of these Avian Twins implicits on the same Greatwolf Talisman (the tier 4 talisman, with 2 implicits)?
Mark, the patient question answerer!
"
Aklyon wrote:
Mark, the patient question answerer!


Seriously, all of OPs questions could be answered by reading the wiki.

And yet telling us the base minion damage values for Zombies, SRS, Skeletons is too much...
All my builds /view-thread/1430399

T14 'real' clearspeed challenge /1642265
Last edited by MatrixFactor on Feb 19, 2016, 11:25:00 AM
"
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
(...)


I have additional questions on this topic :
About the "50% of [element 1] Damage taken as [element 2] Damage" implicit modifier that can be found on Avian Twins Talisman Tier 2 talismans (and on Greatwolf Talisman too), I've read that only damage taken from a hit was altered by this, could you please confirm (or deny) it?
If you confirm it, could you please tell us in which cases other than Damage over Time this nuance can be of importance?

Also, is it possible to have two different of these Avian Twins implicits on the same Greatwolf Talisman (the tier 4 talisman, with 2 implicits)?

So I'm guessing you're OP using an alternate account to circumvent probation? Nice
Last edited by StDrakeX on Feb 19, 2016, 11:38:33 AM
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"
Mark_GGG wrote:
(...)


I have additional questions on this topic :
About the "50% of [element 1] Damage taken as [element 2] Damage" implicit modifier that can be found on Avian Twins Talisman Tier 2 talismans (and on Greatwolf Talisman too), I've read that only damage taken from a hit was altered by this, could you please confirm (or deny) it?
If you confirm it, could you please tell us in which cases other than Damage over Time this nuance can be of importance?

Also, is it possible to have two different of these Avian Twins implicits on the same Greatwolf Talisman (the tier 4 talisman, with 2 implicits)?

You can't have more than 1 of the same implicit mod on an Item, and all of the Avian Twins variants are just different values of the same implicit.

And as far as I know the only thing that it doesn't work on, is Damage over Time, which in the case of Lightning is non-existent and for Cold the only known occurrence is Dominus' Totems. (As far as I know.)

"
StDrakeX wrote:
"
...

So I'm guessing you're OP using an alternate account to circumvent probation? Nice

I think so; and his name is quite apt, "QQ" indeed. :P
IGN: Heavenly_Tribulation
Send me a PM on here, I check it all the time :)
Last edited by Sheriff_K on Feb 19, 2016, 3:12:28 PM

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