Alternate way to level?

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Sa_Re wrote:
It's time to withdraw cruel diff from the game.


Figure it'll go whenever Act 5 comes in. Used to be 2x4 difficulties, then 3x3, 3(extended)x3, now 4x3; logically 5x2 is the next step. 5x3 would be getting too long to play through comfortably, and assuming they're still limited to ~65-70 levels would leave zones too close together.
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I don't know how much time players need to start Dried lake Merc. For me it's around 10/12 hours in solo, it's kinda fast when you look in the H'n'S family.

When I look at the ideas on the thread, it's wierd, I wonder why did you all stop playing D3 and now are on PoE ? And you want the same kind of shits that killed D3 on PoE ? WTF ! =)

Little tips, you can give you some goals during the leveling process, I like to beat my time record on Act 2, I was around 30mn to complete the full act, with my last FP build I did 24mn, mainly because of lucky choice in Vaal pyramid ! And I was and am happy with that...huhu

That was just some thoughts from a random player.
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NeroNoah wrote:
I think alternate leveling is more about the 1 to 85 than the 85 to 100, so the endless dungeon thing that you propose is not really relevant to the discussion (at least as you wrote it, T30 levels are unneeded when T15 areas are deadly enough). You are not going to level up to 100 or get a 6L, that's there for the masochists (and it's not needed anyway, and if you need it you have things like Tabula Rasa). You are going to have more support asking for less gated content, but not for easy access to experience and items.

Also, not having an upper limit on enemy power tends to funnel people to FOTM builds, and it makes less likely for developers to care about balance (think of Greater Rifts, Blizzard and blatant set powercreep).

Playing the main game (4 acts x 3) gets us to level 68 to low 70s so there is no need for alternate way to grind xp until the endgame maps. If you are tired of having to run a build though 4 acts x 3 then there isn't anything that will ever be done to change that. When we get Act 5 either end of this year or early next year then GGG should drop down to only 2 run throughs on main game.

Endless dungeon would silence all who say that PoE is too easy. I used a crude example of dungeon level/10 to equate to map tier level to denote content difficulty but GGG would probably want a difficulty factor closer to 20 so a level 200 dungeon would roughly equal a tier 10 map. The exact factor would be determined by how high GGG wants players to be able to get to before grinding to a point of no further progression. However, if GGG were to allow item progression to continue to scale up then higher levels would always be possible.

As far as builds migrating to FOTM that has always been a problem and when GGG sees a majority of players using a specific skill (such as Cyclone or Flame Totem) then GGG has used the nerf hammer. It is only natural that the most powerful builds will be the most popular. GGG has always had to deal with skill balances and will always be buffing lesser used skills and nerfing the op skills to try and achieve a greater variety of builds among players. Having an endless dungeon to play won't increase FOTM any more than mapping does. Harder levels will mean more effort to leverage the max out of a build but that is the goal of most players anyway.

Suggesting an endless dungeon as a way to gain xp in the endgame does not negate mapping but gives us a 2nd way to play an endgame build. This is exactly what this thread is about, discussing possible alternatives to bring us more choices to play the endgame.

If this is not to your liking then let's hear what you think is a better addition (not mapping replacement) for ways to play an endgame build on the path to level 100. I'm open to suggestions. Hopefully GGG is willing to invest in endgame alternatives to endless mapping.

"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.

The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070
Last edited by Arrowneous on Feb 8, 2016, 10:03:38 PM
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Arrowneous wrote:
Endless dungeon would silence all who say that PoE is too easy.


PoE is not easy. The hard parts are gated, though. It feels pointless to ask for more difficulty.

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Arrowneous wrote:
As far as builds migrating to FOTM that has always been a problem and when GGG sees a majority of players using a specific skill (such as Cyclone or Flame Totem) then GGG has used the nerf hammer. It is only natural that the most powerful builds will be the most popular. GGG has always had to deal with skill balances and will always be buffing lesser used skills and nerfing the op skills to try and achieve a greater variety of builds among players. Having an endless dungeon to play won't increase FOTM any more than mapping does. Harder levels will mean more effort to leverage the max out of a build but that is the goal of most players anyway.


Well, infinite difficulty scaling would make the problem worse. Having a max level at least allow to have a target power for balancing purposes. Infinite scaling of items can make unique items obsolete (there is already enough frustration about the uniques displaced by the powercreep).

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Arrowneous wrote:
If this is not to your liking then let's hear what you think is a better addition (not mapping replacement) for ways to play an endgame build on the path to level 100. I'm open to suggestions. Hopefully GGG is willing to invest in endgame alternatives to endless mapping.


I don't think that an endless dungeon would be bad per se (there was the Maelström of Chaos, a modified version could do it), but I'm against infinite scaling for the reasons above. I lack the imagination to make it compelling though. Everytime someone mentions endless dungeon I think of Plant vs. Zombies 2 Endless zones and it makes me smile (yes, I'm casual as fuck):

Spoiler


Honestly, I'd like something similar to D3's Adventure mode to make the acts (at least after beating normal) more interesting to play.

I do like (a lot) the main storyline but it feels like watching the same movie three times in a row to level a character. Adventure mode is just the logical evolution of boss farming, snack sized missions to keep playing over the same areas. Boss farming in this game is somewhat dull for modern standards.

I predict the areas will grow in alvl making it more viable for leveling to high levels (and maps remaining the fast alternative). If you follow the link in my signature I detailed some ideas in a thread, although there are infinite alternatives to that.

For the moment I'm happy if Cruel is removed with Act V.
Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942
Last edited by NeroNoah on Feb 8, 2016, 11:32:12 PM
Ok, so infinite scalincg is out. However, until/if GGG replaces Trade Chat with Asynchronous Trade top unique gear is something I'll never have access to (I don't engage in trading) so for me having a rare gear that has better stats than a T1 unique isn't of any concern.

I find the whole function of Trade Chat to be highly flawed and frustrating to use (as many do and have posted on) yet GGG so heavily codes PoE around the game economy and leaves us with a broken mess for trading. If item scaling stops in the endgame for rares (with very few exceptions) to protect the T1 uniques economic value then why in the world are we still saddled by a very poor excuse for a trade function? Why does Chris acknowledge that Trade Chat is not where they want trading to be yet to date has only given us lip service? To talk about inherent problems with Trade Chat for years but do nothing about it is totally insane. I sure hope asynchronous trade gains traction within GGG and they replace Trade Chat soon.
"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.

The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070
"
Myrdynn wrote:
Spoiler
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Perq wrote:
I love people saying they are bored with current leveling system, yet they propose one that is even more boring. Lol.

Leveling up quickly in current system by using right paths, some smart tricks and so on is a thing. If you know how to do it, you can level up REALLY quickly, and all the pathing and quests aren't a problem.

Is it the same every time? Tile sets - yes. Maps - no. You still get RANDOM maps.

You instead insist on creating a tunnel, that has endless maps. My guess would be you also want it to be a Ledge type map, so you only run in a line and kill stuff.
You said what? BOREDOM? And your argument is that these maps would be random... current maps are random already!

Truth be told, some people will always complain and want "something else", and no matter what GGG adds, they will still want more. Or you are just fascinated by D3's brilliant system.

And other than that, creating alternate system creates a meta in itself, where one system is better than the other, be it easier, faster etc. Yet another problem to fight with, which is in my opinion not worth it, since PoE from the very beginning was planned for 10 acts, with no repetition.




sorry but yes I do feel like D3's system is much closer to brilliant. You have multiple things to do. Sometimes I push GR's solo, or I find a meta group, sometimes I speed farm t10's for loot and DB's, sometimes I join bounties and get crafting materials. Sometimes I do an Uber farm, over and over to make Hellfire amulets. Then when all that is said and done, you can do a never boring Cow or Vault farm with a team, and stock up on gold and gems.

POE gives 1 thing to do, and you have to play the game that way.

I prefer variety. That being said, I still love POE, I just don't want to do the ACTs again, I didn't anywhere say it needs to be endless ledge, I think ledge is dumb and love the more open zones, I know how to level faster, also, but that doesnt change the fact that I have to go thru the acts to do it


Yet, D3 has an opinion of a week-maybe-2 kind of game. I'm not saying that this is the only reason, but I can't but notice that all these "not only reasons" seem to pile up on D3.

And again, I'm not saying I don't want variation - I would like to sometimes change into Atziri fragment hunter, or do some other end-game stuff. I would like to see masters being more useful, more depth in maps system, alternate ways to farms in end-game. But we don't need alternate way to level up to that level 65, because there is still a long way to go in terms of Acts.
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Arrowneous wrote:
If item scaling stops in the endgame for rares (with very few exceptions) to protect the T1 uniques economic value...


No, scaling won't stop, but the increments are going to be smaller and smaller and even lateral rather than vertical. Powercreep is like real life inflation; too much is bad (because current wealth goes to the drain), and deflation/stagnation makes people stop doing investments (in this situation would be in time and wealth) because there is nothing to win. A lot of people complained about T0 affixes but it actually makes sense to do that (specially with the perfect rare thing).

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Perq wrote:
Yet, D3 has an opinion of a week-maybe-2 kind of game. I'm not saying that this is the only reason, but I can't but notice that all these "not only reasons" seem to pile up on D3.

And again, I'm not saying I don't want variation - I would like to sometimes change into Atziri fragment hunter, or do some other end-game stuff. I would like to see masters being more useful, more depth in maps system, alternate ways to farms in end-game. But we don't need alternate way to level up to that level 65, because there is still a long way to go in terms of Acts.


I think people spend more time in PoE because each league brings new stuff to play with (even if not FOTM), and the challenges. Also, getting the items is hard as fuck (the game takes more time because it's more grindy). D3 has a more stagnant itemization with the whole set thing.

I don't think the ways of leveling are that influential (except maybe that adventure mode can be gamed easily, but that's more on the design that the concept itself).
Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942
Last edited by NeroNoah on Feb 9, 2016, 10:57:17 AM
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Shagsbeard wrote:
To many, the game is leveling. We level up, and eventually die. Start up again.

What do you propose as an "alternative"?


Fishing game !!! :O
and or Card game :)

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What worked for me was picking up racing tactics to get my characters up to 70in <10 hours, it's both more challenging and less time consuming.
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