Regarding locked threads that thematized the globe appearances

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Corpseshock wrote:

This is deeply concerning to me.

I think that public discussion should always be allowed as long as rules aren't broken. If a topic is polarizing, shutting down longliving threads must not be the first thing, a moderator is considering. Virtually, its a moderators task to ensure that the discussion occurs in the first place. At least, thats my standards and expectations. I fear, that some people may think that they are being limited to what staff considers adequate for discussion.

I'm sorry to tell you, but this is not a public discussion. They can limit what you discuss. This is private property. You might be able to go into a restaurant and ask the chef why he took your favorite item off the menu, but that is about the extent of it.

It's settled business. It changed. They said why they did it. Some of us think we know the "real" reason, but those discussions tend to go south fast.

Might I suggest the POE reddit page as a place to hold the discussion?

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Barivius wrote:

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Corpseshock wrote:

This is deeply concerning to me.

I think that public discussion should always be allowed as long as rules aren't broken. If a topic is polarizing, shutting down longliving threads must not be the first thing, a moderator is considering. Virtually, its a moderators task to ensure that the discussion occurs in the first place. At least, thats my standards and expectations. I fear, that some people may think that they are being limited to what staff considers adequate for discussion.

I'm sorry to tell you, but this is not a public discussion. They can limit what you discuss. This is private property. You might be able to go into a restaurant and ask the chef why he took your favorite item off the menu, but that is about the extent of it.

It's settled business. It changed. They said why they did it. Some of us think we know the "real" reason, but those discussions tend to go south fast.

Might I suggest the POE reddit page as a place to hold the discussion?

If you want the restaurant metaphor to work, it should be like this: You ask the chef why he took your favourite item off, he tells you it's his decision and its not likely to change and you start talking about it with your friends. The chef then prohibits talking about that, in any way, to anyone, at all. Then someone else says to the restaurant visitors, "hey, do you think the chef is doing a good job?" and the chef immediately bans this subject too and threatens eviction. He says, "I only allow you to discuss that with the restaurant management, you can't talk to other customers about it".

What do you think, is the restaurant going to do well with this policy?

You can't come into my restaurant and ask every table enjoying their meal if they'd support putting the old item back on no.

You get one shot to complain to me in my restaurant about it. If I can't make it right, I'm not going to let you cause a scene. After that, take it to yelp.

Use whatever metaphor you want. It's not a public discussion. The complaint was heard loud and clear. It's not changing back, but we could get some nice SJW wars in here. I'll throw down in one of those gladly, but I'll spare these forums. There are places where that can be discussed.

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Barivius wrote:

You can't come into my restaurant and ask every table enjoying their meal if they'd support putting the old item back on no.

You get one shot to complain to me in my restaurant about it. If I can't make it right, I'm not going to let you cause a scene. After that, take it to yelp.

Use whatever metaphor you want. It's not a public discussion. The complaint was heard loud and clear. It's not changing back, but we could get some nice SJW wars in here. I'll throw down in one of those gladly, but I'll spare these forums. There are places where that can be discussed.

Fair enough, that's your restaurant. If you, as the chef, ignore a poll saying that 84% of the customers dislike the change and you don't even allow people to talk about it, it's no longer the restaurant for me - I'll leave and that's that. It's an appropriate conclusion of the story, I think.

Ignoring and stifling feedback doesn't seem like a wise business practice to me, but who am I to judge? The horse seems beaten to death already, so let's leave it at that.

Just as a final note, every time I've written a serious thread in feedback talking about something, GGG has done exactly what I've said they should do, but usually months later when it's a bit late. So I might be just some random internet guy, but I'm pretty sure my feedback has a respectable degree of accuracy.

This "conversation" about moderation is being driven by a handful of people who claim to represent the majority. The majority is sick and tired of it. There's a reason that the first page of GD has posts on it that are three days old and not off the bottom yet. No one wants to post anymore. Get over this issue.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

This "conversation" about moderation is being driven by a handful of people who claim to represent the majority. The majority is sick and tired of it. There's a reason that the first page of GD has posts on it that are three days old and not off the bottom yet. No one wants to post anymore. Get over this issue.

Sorry Majority, I didn't know. Anyway, I made my ruckus, as I said, I have nothing new to add to the conversation... Still, today I learned you have mass mind reading abilities, so the thread's not a complete waste. And here I am relying on polls, as biased and unreliable as they might be - silly me. Should've just asked Shags!

No one in their right mind gives more than half a fuck about the UI girls, Grant. If you think that's what the thread is about, you completely missed the point despite it being repeated again and again.

See, that's what bugs me about that discussion. I keep hearing arguments which aren't really arguments. Hermit Dragon said we shouldn't talk about this because it's unimportant compared, to, say... people getting raped? (O.o). You and Shags are saying GGG can do whatever they want and that you are tired of reading about it. It is all true - and it is unrelated to my contention. I'm not saying they can't do it, I'm saying they shouldn't. And if you are tired of the discussion, by all means feel free to ignore it.

My claim is that GGG's current moderation policy is unhealthy for the forum's long-term well-being because it's stifling conversations and turning people away - after all, a forum is first and foremost a place of discussion. And no real discussion is completely devoid of animosity. Debates get heated, stuff gets said - that's how it is. A good moderator should judge when it's within reasonable limits, smooth things out here and there and generally stay as invisible as possible. A good example would be Melissa, who edited out my tasteless joke and deleted a few comments about it while still recognizing it was a joke. I apologized to the guy who got offended and everything proceeded normally with just a slight bump.

Some other moderators' favorite technique is to just lock a thread. That sure does prevent hostility but it's a heavy-handed, hamfisted approach. If a dentist pulls out a tooth with a minor cavity, it's certainly an effective solution, but is it a job well done? I wouldn't say that.

And, again: I don't really care about the subject. I won't get heartbroken if the thread is locked or I get probated or whatever. I'm not even playing the game now and I intend to have a long break. I dedicated so much time to this topic because I do give a damn about PoE, GGG and the forum, even if it's a very minor one, I am grateful for the countless hours of entertainment they have provided me with and I want to see them do well and prosper. It would be easier to just shrug and go away. I prefer to leave a few words before I leave, though. They may not be kind words and may not be pleasant to hear, but I believe they are worth saying - and listening to, whether or not one agrees.

This is all.


p.s. if you prefer people who tell GGG they are amazing and can do no wrong, there are enough of those

Louis CK about "you're amazing"