Reasons for GGG's design decisions for RNG gated content

high level maps should be rewarding nothing makes me more angry than doing a hard ass map and getting a level 5 item that is worthless.
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elwindakos wrote:
The fact that no one right now speaks of drop rate and solo vs party,is another indication drops are in good place.


You said what?!

In the last 10-20 THOUSAND rares I've seen drop, not a single one has been an upgrade for my level 94. So, my options:

1. Grind and trade endlessly for a 800+ dps axe which won't really improve my clear speed;
2. Hope.

You can see how far number 2 has gotten me in the last six months. The drops in this game are really nothing exciting; I mostly play to chat now.
The use of RNG to an often brutal extent, layered upon layer upon layer in every aspect of PoE including content gating, isn't actually the problem in and of itself.

The problem is that one can almost completely remove said RNG from every one of those aspects, via trade.

You either roll the D10,000 or flip the double heads coin.
Casually casual.

I actually like the rng, its fun to 6socket and 5link hoping for that 6link, what i dont like is increasingly stuck at lvl74 content (heard it a million times). You can make gear hard to get etc, but to play the game requiring that much currency just to keep getting a lvl76-77 map whats the point.
another 108% quant l76 map from stash down how rewarding.
Last edited by Fhark on Jul 30, 2015, 9:23:21 PM
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FadeXF wrote:
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Xavderion wrote:
RNG adds the spice to the game. Poker would be boring without RNG. Scrabble would be boring without RNG. Even tetris would be boring without RNG. And so would every ARPG. Also there is a deterministic way to get maps, it's called buying them ;)



Xav - do you have experience with 2.0 mapping? Or are you basically just using your old map supplies?


I'm doing lvl 72 meeps at the moment and I don't see myself climbing much higher from drops alone (good thing I can trade). While map drops might not be in a good place at the moment I was talking about RNG as a concept.
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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johnKeys wrote:
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Xavderion wrote:
RNG adds the spice to the game. Poker would be boring without RNG. Scrabble would be boring without RNG. Even tetris would be boring without RNG. And so would every ARPG. Also there is a deterministic way to get maps, it's called buying them ;)


man will you please stop?
there is RNG, and there is Path Of Exile RNG.
Path Of Exile takes RNG further than any ARPG ever did, or will.
Path Of Exile takes Economy further than any ARPG ever did, or will.
no one considers that a good thing. heck not even GGG at this point, I bet.
but now that we got that out of the way, I'm going back to my previous post:
that's not going to change. not in this game. not with this game's financial model.
GGG stepped into their own Bear Trap, and they can't get out. it's too late.


Nope. RNG in PoE is very average especially since they introduced masters and shit. D2 was a lot worse if you wanted to play legit and get the highest runes and legs. Asian MMOs are MUCH worse even today and they are p2w on top of that. And I consider RNG a good thing that really adds to the game and I'm sure I'm not alone in this one once you get over the 'but muh drops!' negativity and actually think about why RNG is so prevalent in many games (not only video games but all games).
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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TheAnuhart wrote:
The use of RNG to an often brutal extent, layered upon layer upon layer in every aspect of PoE including content gating, isn't actually the problem in and of itself.

The problem is that one can almost completely remove said RNG from every one of those aspects, via trade.

You either roll the D10,000 or flip the double heads coin.


Why is that a problem? I see it as a good thing, either you get lucky or you trade your hard earned loot for it when you have enough.
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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Guess your "trust" of GGG was short-lived hey, you big old bandwagonner? rofl

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1329354


I trust them, to eventually make the game more stable and more polished, BMBI.
make the gameplay smoother, content better, lore better, monster/boss fights more balanced and fun, graphics more optimized, and so on.
they can do that, given time.

I do not trust them to make the stupid RNG layering and Economy-gating go away, because they can't (for the reasons stated above) even if they wanted to.
you can bet I'm even more angry and frustrated about it, than Jojas is - but at this point I've almost completely given up hope.

one thing does not contradict the other.

@Xav,
do you honestly think comparing an ARPG to a P2W-to-the-core, Korean Grinder MMO, is fair?
yeah this game also has a lot less RNG than The Lottery, but come on!

D2? I don't know man.
I found a Zod in D2. pure RNG, of course. Mirror-of-Kalandra grade RNG.
but I also got to do Uber Tristram, in D2. not pure RNG, though heck of a grind.
can you tell me I will ever - in this lifetime or the next - get to fight Uber Atziri? hell no.
but let's assume for the sake of argument I will.
my one and only Tristram run was with self found gear. years worth of it, sure - but I traded for nothing. heck, I had no idea what a "SoJ" was. came out with a Torch in my inventory. smiling.
Uber Atziri with self-found gear? haha yeah fucking right. well... maybe. if you could actually get to her without being completely fkn butchered by her horribly over-tuned minions.

and my current "years worth" of self-found gear? probably worth some Exalts in the friggin "economy". probably. mostly because it's "legacy", alternate-art, medium-tier items that got moved up tiers over time, and whatnot.
I have zero top-tier items. you know, the kind people here memorize by name. zero.
in D2 I did. several. and at least one full set I can recall.

and I actually got to do all the content. all of it.

so no, D2 didn't push RNG to the frontiers Path Of Exile does. thank god.
and it sure as hell didn't put "economy" at its center, like PoE does.
Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun
Last edited by johnKeys on Jul 30, 2015, 10:47:56 PM
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johnKeys wrote:

@Xav,
do you honestly think comparing an ARPG to a P2W-to-the-core, Korean Grinder MMO, is fair?
yeah this game also has a lot less RNG than The Lottery, but come on!

D2? I don't know man.
I found a Zod in D2. pure RNG, of course. Mirror-of-Kalandra grade RNG.
but I also got to do Uber Tristram, in D2. not pure RNG, though heck of a grind.
can you tell me I will ever - in this lifetime or the next - get to fight Uber Atziri? hell no.
but let's assume for the sake of argument I will.
my one and only Tristram run was with self found gear. years worth of it, sure - but I traded for nothing. heck, I had no idea what a "SoJ" was. came out with a Torch in my inventory. smiling.
Uber Atziri with self-found gear? haha yeah fucking right. well... maybe. if you could actually get to her without being completely fkn butchered by her horribly over-tuned minions.

and my current "years worth" of self-found gear? probably worth some Exalts in the friggin "economy". probably. mostly because it's "legacy", alternate-art, medium-tier items that got moved up tiers over time, and whatnot.
I have zero top-tier items. you know, the kind people here memorize by name. zero.
in D2 I did. several. and at least one full set I can recall.

and I actually got to do all the content. all of it.

so no, D2 didn't push RNG to the frontiers Path Of Exile does. thank god.
and it sure as hell didn't put "economy" at its center, like PoE does.


While I like your story, such kind of anecdotal evidence isn't really helpful for discussing RNG as a concept. While you found zero top tier items other people are finding several top tier items every day (else there would be no top tier items on the market). And just because I never found a Zod that doesn't mean D2 RNG is worse than PoE's even though I certainly feel like it is. There's a reason why top tier D2 items sold for several hundred of real dollars on Ebay :)
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
many games gate content, RNG drops, check gear... but in no one game I remember, do all the above pieces fall into place like in Path Of Exile, creating such a massive RNG Clusterfuck.

I'll remove my D2 fan glasses for a second, and admit D2 had its (un)fair share of over-tuned content, ridiculous rarity of top-tier drops like you mentioned, and even a bit of content gating.
but it didn't do all of the above, the way PoE does.
no fkn awesome RPG I ever enjoyed getting addicted to, did. except this one.

this is the only game - outside games explicitly designed to bully you into paying up - where RNG is "RNGESUS" the all-seeing, all-mighty god.
which should roughly translate to "oh fuck I think we've gone too far" for GGG, but it doesn't. and even if it does, there's nothing they can do about it, by now.
Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun

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