Level 1 DPS Competition

While I did manage to roll some alright weapons, I couldn't manage to put together a decent set of armour. Also ended up with no time today to work on my entry.
Did notice a couple of interesting things tho, while comparing gear.

Firstly, Items with +strength don't alter your displayed dps at all. I could swear I read in a thread somewhere that it applied to your actual damage while not being displayed, but I can't seem to dig it up now. Would impact Lurker's theoretical calcs tho.

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Lurker wrote:

Thirdly, melee has a raw advantage over ranged simply because they benefit from %ED via the strength stat. Ranged weapon users have no comparable benefit from dexterity, and both stats can be stacked on magic or rare level 1 armors.

Other thing I noticed is increasing your accuracy (if it was below max) increased your displayed dps. Tried the same bow and quiver on a Ranger, Duelist and Marauder (no other gear). The ranger had the highest displayed dps of the 3 even with the lower base strength, doe to have 95% accuracy.

Also, just from the numbers with the base item, a bone staff looked like it might have been a better 2H melee option than a mallet. Seemed to be a fairly large dps difference even tho the item data page has them listed as equal.

Anyways, don't think I would have broke 50 dps with the way my gear was looking.

Nice! Wish I had time to get the 12 skill points. Congrats to the winners :)

koolness
much better then i would have thought
i should have tried to get a few passives

thanks

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Lurker wrote:

First of all, the short swords have a base speed of 1.65, working multiplicatively with all other bonuses (including the 10% dual wield bonus).

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by working multiplicatively with other bonuses since there's no bonus here, they just have a lower base attack duration and therefore higher base attacks per second. That can't add with increases since there's no increase to add to, just the base amount which gets the increase.

I was referring to the multiplicative effects with Increased Attack Speed modifiers. If you have 20% Increased Attack Speed, you're getting 1.65 * 1.2 = 1.98 Attacks/s. The higher your base speed, the more you're getting out of ias, which directly correlates to increased potency from global modifiers of elemental/physical damage.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Lurker wrote:

Secondly, from what limited in-game testing I did, most of the damage values shown in the character screen lead me to believe that most if not all of the weapon modifiers (ie: elemental damage) were processed globally rather than locally.

They're not. If you can give specific examples of particular modifiers (other than the one you give below) I can investigate and find out if one's been set up wrong, but in general this is simply not the case.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Lurker wrote:

That means that if you had +2-4 cold damage on one sword, you'd see that damage applied to the other sword as well.

That's not true, and the character sheet is quite clear about that, since it lists main and off-hand damage of each type separately. If I have 2 - 4 added fire damage on my main hand weapon, I can look in the character screen and see "Main Hand Fire Damage: 2 - 4" and no entry for off hand fire damage, so I am not at all sure how you came to this conclusion.

I'm fairly certain in 0.9.3 that I saw raw +elemental damage and raw +physical damage modifiers occasionally stacking across weapons. That one was entirely my fault, as on a re-read it seemed rather hyperbolic of my initial intentions. It didn't work all of the time, but it seemed as though sometimes it was rolling them as global modifiers rather than local modifiers. If I was delusional for whatever reason and this was never the case, my bad.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Lurker wrote:

Thirdly, melee has a raw advantage over ranged simply because they benefit from %ED via the strength stat. Ranged weapon users have no comparable benefit from dexterity, and both stats can be stacked on magic or rare level 1 armors.

Lastly, not only are swords the fastest weapon, but they also provide you with that convenient +25% base accuracy mod, essentially guaranteeing a 95% hit rate at level 1. Of course, a ranger won't have much trouble with this, either, but it gives it an advantage over other melee types.

Dex provides a benefit in the form of accuracy, which you first dismiss here, yet point out just afterwards makes the 25% increased accuracy on the short swords not as necessary for dex-based characters.

I was pointing out that, as a level 1, it's painfully easy to get 95% accuracy and cap out on it. This is easier for a ranger to do because of their higher base dexterity than other classes. Any dexterity beyond that point is utterly useless in that regard, unless there's some hidden mechanism I'm unaware of. Strength provides an uncapped increase of 1% melee damage per 5 points, by comparison. It's more difficult for a melee character to hit the 95% cap, but the base 25% accuracy bonus on swords helps to compensate for that. Provided that a ranged character and a melee character both have the 95% accuracy cap, and all other things are equal, the melee character will have the numerical advantage due to strength. Ranged class DPS benefits from dexterity, while melee class DPS benefits from both dexterity and strength.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Lurker wrote:

Generally speaking, the bow can deal more damage when your gear is junk, but the increased speed, global modifier effects, and strength benefits outweigh what advantage the bow has quite considerably once you break a certain gear quality threshold. The more +elemental/physical damage you have working globally, the less useful that base quiver modifier is compared to the 10% ias dual wield bonus.

As pointed out above, added elemental damage on weapons is not applied globally. However added damage from rings, etc is added to all attacks, which I suspect is a significant factor here.

I remember occasionally seeing global modifiers on weapons which visibly affected the character screen readouts on the damage values of other weapons, as stated above. However, I may have been wrong. I blew through over a dozen rare short swords and several dozen magic short swords in my quest for a decent dual wield set, but I had difficulty finding the appropriate modifiers, let alone their global versions (provided they even existed at all). In the case that there never were global modifiers of any form for any weapon, then the dual short sword duelist would drop below the ranger and possibly the marauder build I had listed. However, the dual wield templar would still outperform all other builds.

EDIT: I distinctly remember checking to make sure that some weapon modifiers did work globally prior to my original post several hours ago. However the weapons which I used to test it no longer give me the same results. Either it was a graphical error in the character screen that was fixed from 0.9.3 -> 0.9.4, or I'm just suffering from some form of sleep deprivation.

Is there any way we can view the gear / skill trees of the winning characters?

Not a big deal but would be interesting!

Chris, in the .94 video you posted. Jonathan mentions something about your lvl 1 DPS exceeding everyone else's by A LOT. Even though you were cheating by re-rolling the mods dev style.. what was your DPS?

The winning DPS numbers seem quite low. With the right mods, I'm pretty sure the range is a lot higher.

as you can see it really wasnt that hard to get 50 dps with a few rares you should be able to hit 70 easy with no passives
edit the dps dropped a point with 9.4 not sure why