Slight alteration to the exp-penalty to make the game seem more rewarding
" Ok, surely you have much more info than us, let's wait and see. I trust your words (but my fear it's that with the new harder hits by mobs, there will be a lot more un happy players) | |
" Fair enough. But I would like to point out that the mtivation for this suggestion was not that exp loss was unfair, not about the reasons of exp loss, but rather how the representation of that loss has psychological relevance. As such, I don't think the issue will dramatically change with 2.0, but let's wait and see. | |
" You don't need to quote the whole post every time :P Most of the information I know is also available on reddit, by watching streamers play the beta or having access to the closed beta forums. I do know some mobs are a little overtuned, but those are things they can balance, I still ran around in act 4 merciless with a tabula, like no armor gear as a caster (those hardest hit by nerfs\changes in beta IMO) and wasn't deing. I think I made it to level 84 or so before the last wipe, I hadn't had the ambition to progress my current "summoner" past act 3 in normal after the reset earlier. " Right, but you are comparing it to the current situation and scenario which is a desyncy, spiky and unfair system, which isn't fair to discuss now knowing the changes are coming to improve it. Thoughts on the penalty will change significantly after act 4, which is the main purpose of my "please wait" https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285 FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. Last edited by goetzjam on May 22, 2015, 1:40:48 PM
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The majority of my deaths are not related to things like desync but are from limitations on my build/gear. Like I think 'this time i'll kill that damned jungle valley boss' and I get my ass handed to me just like all the other times I tried it. When I get to 92 I don't really expect to get any higher. Then I play to farm or start new characters.
I must say I don't really understand the mentality of quitting because you die. Maybe it's because I played D2 for years which had a much harsher penalty and getting to 100 was impossible. Old schoolers like me like being penalized for failing even while we slam our mouse down and curse at the screen. Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com | |
" Ok, true. Tackling those issue will propably make people feel the exp penalty less injust and this lessens the need for this representative trick. However, there are still benefits to be had by adopting this system. I think there is one important point that could help clarify this discussion a bit. If you limit the number of stacks by the number of exp you have gained on that level so that you can at most the the number of exp you have gained of the next level as debt and you have zero exp progression while you have debt, you get exactly the system we have now. That is: the current syste is a special case of the system I'm proposing. This makes the "new" system more general and has some additional deature that the old system is not well equipped to accommodate. These include: - No free deaths at 0% : debt stacks set to 10 - Slow progression even when dying a lot: small exp progression on exp gained even when in debt - Safeguard against disastrous runs: debt stack less than 10. - Psychological benefit of seemingly not loosing exp. These are additional features that you can do with this system that the old one does not accomodate. Now, it might be that some of these features are not seen as neccessary, but the first one seems like a clear improvement over the current system. So it seems to me to be rather irrelevant what gameplay improvements the 2.0 brings, since the old system does not seem to have any advantages over the proposed one and the new system would enable additional features. The exp debt could be shown as a red slider over the exp-slider. Last edited by Cipp on May 22, 2015, 7:41:55 PM
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So basically you want to make it so the player stops making progress until they pay off a deficit, effectively making players not want to play at all, instead of having it so players immediatly begin making progress once they respawn and play the game?
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With this system I just would do suicide boss runs. People usually try bosses to get items and not experience. So why should it matter to me if I get a little bit less EXP then?
No, penality must stay, otherwise people still play bad and do not learn to make good viable endgame builds. :/ |
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" Depending on how many debt stacks you can get and what is the exp gain while in debt, you would get either no exp or very little. It's not a bit less exp. Note that the exp gain while in debt that I'm suggesting would be very low. Something like 1-3%. Even with 3% leveling that way would be comparable to dying over 300 times just for that one level. It is a very slow way to proceed ans there just to give something for the people that like bashing their heads. I do not think it would demotivate peolpe from coming up with better builds. " Well, you make progress by paying of the debt and potential small progress while in debt. I guess the difference is in how you see your progress. Is it less motivating to grind and then lose that grind or grind and then have to grind some more the get forward? I dunno, but to me it seemed like some players take the loss of grind somewhat bad. | |
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I think the exp debt system punishes you even harder than the current one does.
As you level past level 90, the exp returns from even the highest maps are substantially diminishing. I am currently at level 95, and even a well rolled 78 map gives me less than one percent progress. If I mess up, I´d much rather see 10% disappear and grind those back (like it is now), than to collect a debt and see my xp bar move even slower than that until the debt is paid. I don´t mean to offend, but the suggested system and the improvements you think it will bring, somehow leave the impression that you do not know how slow the progression beyond level 90 already is. Another very negative factor is that you can get up to a whole level (10 stacks of 10%) in exp debt, so that in the worst possible case you´d have to collect twice the experience you´d need to get to the next level. This cannot possibly be seen as an improvement over what we have now. |
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" Right now losing experience only takes from what you've gained. If you have 9% of your level, you're not getting the full penalty. Once you're at 0% and of high level, you can zerg content to an extent. The only limiting factor are portals. If there was only a one time debt, it refreshes each time you die. It doesn't matter if you're at 1%, 54%, or 99%. You'll have to pay that 10% before anything else. If the debt stacks, there is basically no limit to how high it can go. Debt is a lot worse than paying outright, especially when you can pay 0%. Who cares if you get 5% of your normally earned xp? Nobody is going to see it so it's still going to have the same negative effect as losing 10% of your experience. You know monsters are granting xp, but you aren't getting it. Why play? There is no difference from losing experience and paying an xp debt. This has been brought up before, many times, and shot down each time. I wish people would use a search function. |
