Is mjolner nerf going to be global or legacy, your thoughts?

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Mannoth wrote:

That is just the thing, there is no way of knowing at all.

You might as well flip a coin.

Heh, not entirely, I do have some basis for assumption so we could say the coin is weighted :)

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Mjonler will still do ok dps but not as consistently as now which can get you in a bit of trouble. The value will drop though not because it is bad, but because a cheap CoC dagger can do the same as a 30% proc Mjolner and scale up further.

Assuming crit stays unchanged, of course.

Well unlike CoC dagger builds mjolner allows for stacking of high defense while maintaining high dps.

I don't understand why you all are discussing about how difficult it may be to retroactively nerf Mjölner - it for sure isn't too hard if they really wanted to do it. First it could be possible that the item database has an index for the item type, so all they had to do was using that index to get a list of all Mjölners in the game. But even if they don't have an index it's not hard. They just have to modify the drop algorithm on the server to record all Mjölner drops in the future. Meanwhile, they could search the entire database for Mjölners. So they would get a snapshot of all Mjölners in the game at a particular time and would record all future drops. Then, when the nerf comes, they only have to take this list and change every Mjölner (which isn't a big effort considering how few Mjölners are in the game). It's totally not hard to do.

The crucial point is rather if they could do something like that to an economy without enraging a huge number of people. If you bought a Mjölner for 30-50ex and after the nerf it would be worth say 10-20ex, you would be pretty pissed about that. Would they risk to upset all Mjölner owners? Considering that there might be a high number of higher-level supporters among those?

I would say no.

At least you can't justify a retroactive Mjölner nerf without also nerfing ALL other legacies to their current version.

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neoc666 wrote:

Meanwhile, they could search the entire database for Mjölners. So they would get a snapshot of all Mjölners in the game at a particular time and would record all future drops.

At least you can't justify a retroactive Mjölner nerf without also nerfing ALL other legacies to their current version.

Sure, when the whole legacy item question first appeared they did say it was an option, but it would require shutting down the server for a long time to sniff out all legacy uniques and forcibly reroll them. It's also a matter of rolls, they supposedly can't do whatever they want with items on live server, they could reroll the entire item because it's normally possible to do it but they can't input whatever value they please, so you might get your perfectly rolled facebreakers ruined.

The official justification for leaving legacy items in the game have been 'technical difficulties', sometimes it's possible to avoid creating a legacy and in such cases they did avoid it. That's what we were discussing, is it possible with Myolner or not.

That said, if I were them I'd take this chance, bite the bullet and shut down the server for a day just before 2.0 release to reroll all legacy items, nobody will play at that point anyway. I suppose a script could be made to repeat the reroll until new ones are equal or higher than previously so nobody will end up with a subpar item.

Crown of Eyes and Acuities were nerfed retroactively and lots of people were pissed off by that.

Ggg did not care. And several people hoarded several TABS of such items. And lost 100s of exalts

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sidtherat wrote:

Crown of Eyes and Acuities were nerfed retroactively and lots of people were pissed off by that.

Ggg did not care. And several people hoarded several TABS of such items. And lost 100s of exalts

Neither mod contained a numerical value before it was changed.

Aegis Aurora, Kaom's Heart and Lightning Coil are our best clues for a legacy verson whilst crown of eyes is a perfect example for when exactly items can be changed retroactively.

Acuity changed from non-numerical to numerical tho so who knows.

Crown and Acuity lessons made people less eager to stockpile tabs of these items and at the same time sparked threads like these.



Showing just how much this game is about money :)

I have a feeling Acuity's numeric value is a "fake" numeric value.

e.g. the mod title is "Leech applies instantly on Critical Strike at 60% effectiveness" and the numeric value is 100 (which serves no mechanical purpose)

As opposed to the mod being "Leech applies instantly on Critical Strike at <NUMERIC VALUE> effectiveness" - which would require people to divine their acuities for the numeric value to make any sense.

Bear in mind this is going the other direction most nerfs (including Mjolner) would go. It's probably considerably less hack-ey to modify a mod without a numeric value and give it a fake one than it is to modify a mod with a numeric value and ignore it in favor of a fake one.



And yeah, the core problem here is that GGG can't modify items while the servers are live. Given how important the ability to do so is however (anybody remember the LSD-trip day where people were wearing swords on their chest and fighting with armor?), I'd be willing to bet the technology to do so is somewhere on someone's to-do list. And when it happens, you can say goodbye at least to any new legacies, still don't know if they would be so harsh as to reroll ALL legacies though.

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gilrad wrote:

I have a feeling Acuity's numeric value is a "fake" numeric value.

e.g. the mod title is "Leech applies instantly on Critical Strike at 60% effectiveness" and the numeric value is 100 (which serves no mechanical purpose)

As opposed to the mod being "Leech applies instantly on Critical Strike at <NUMERIC VALUE> effectiveness" - which would require people to divine their acuities for the numeric value to make any sense.

Bear in mind this is going the other direction most nerfs (including Mjolner) would go. It's probably considerably less hack-ey to modify a mod without a numeric value and give it a fake one than it is to modify a mod with a numeric value and ignore it in favor of a fake one.



And yeah, the core problem here is that GGG can't modify items while the servers are live. Given how important the ability to do so is however (anybody remember the LSD-trip day where people were wearing swords on their chest and fighting with armor?), I'd be willing to bet the technology to do so is somewhere on someone's to-do list. And when it happens, you can say goodbye at least to any new legacies, still don't know if they would be so harsh as to reroll ALL legacies though.

there is a VERY simple way of doing this without a downtime - change an item ON LOGIN. it might increase login time on a release day - but there is nothing wrong with staggered login (with new leagues starting on a new day). even assuming a player has one milion items (ofc he has a tiny fraction of that) he has at most 100 acuities/mjolners. iterating over these and altering one number is a trivial task for any modern database.

having it on a login scatters the operations a bit reducing the peak load. most owners of legacy items are no longer playing anyway so they are out. even with 1000 legacy uniques per player (and most players DO NOT HAVE legacies at all) this takes trivial amount of time for a database

poe servers will be scaled up for release anyway so they can take the extra load.

there is no technical difficulty here. it is 2015. i wonder how people can buy tales about some items being impossible to change due to 'magic' when the same people have smartphones with CPU's stronger than their desktops had 4 years ago.

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sidtherat wrote:

there is no technical difficulty here. it is 2015. i wonder how people can buy tales about some items being impossible to change due to 'magic' when the same people have smartphones with CPU's stronger than their desktops had 4 years ago.

Well sure, it looks a bit implausible but I'm willing to file "can't spare anyone to make a decent solutions and can't do anything with what we currently have" under technical difficulties too.