Dual claw + Acrobatics, Help - survivability and tips

Hello, im starting a melee (first ever dual), shadow wanted always to try out using dual claws for the insane life leech and using the bloodseeker for the instant leech without needing vaal pact saving me allot of skill points. Here is the basic skill tree im planning:

https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgYAotmw2P-TsJJR2Ra_pn_tQbGztUidqjY9bWxirKc0wJzjhG9XRfRkr4o4Ff20xdYHj8FLHI2BwuwFtTpCS3jdqDBx1CPo1s96shkyAZsm6xTN6o2_XkWS8_rrUUdNkiP2jX0wfExgo4qVZgSxA4fv49N-7YMZjgBefyvWikp945-Hdmeg_MVW-nfXg71ei93nVUth4iaVbIybjQguelNh6w==

The main uniques im thinking using is the bloodseeker and atziri's step for that 16% dodge spell

But im worried about something, I made recently a tornado shoot shadow he isnt that bad, the acrobatics and ondars are pretty awesome. But againts some heavy physical bosses I could get 2-3 shoot if the evasion and dodge missed (but with this build i would leech up health in a istant). But im worried since im melee i could get killed pretty quick.
What im asking is for some tips for melee defence so i won't get killed by a pack of blue mobs. Or any way to optimize my tree in should i focus more damage since im guessing without crit my damage will probably suck or more defenses?

I was thinking going for heavy dual wield block nodes, but with the 30% less block chance from acrobatics im guessing it isnt much worth it.

I did kinda same build in Rampage and leveled to it to 88 or so without much problems, killed Atziri too pretty easy. I took the dual wield block nodes too at first but they weren't worth it really and I respecced out of them at 80s (Acro didn't even reduce block back then). I'd say drop those block clusters and just go crit/damage. The more damage you do, the faster you leech and kill. Offense becomes your defense. You also don't need to spend 3 points for Soul Drinker (shadow area mana leech) since the claw cluster already provides 2% mana leech which should be enough.

The problem with the build is that dual strike (you need to use dual strike for instant leech with both weapons when using Bloodseeker) is pretty mana hungry. You rely on mana leech to sustain your mana and misses happen and often you swing air because of desync. You could solve this by using Soul Taker but then your damage isn't that great (I tried this too). Annoying shit.

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Grughal wrote:

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Hey thanks for the quick reply, its good to have someone who build that same thing im thinking!
Guess if even you dint go for the block nodes without the 30% less from acro no point going for it now! thanks for the reply guess im focusing on more damage then, still undecided if i should go for crit or just plain %more damage (isnt it better for daggers than claws?)

Go crit, you are next to some pretty tasty crit nodes anway, then try getting a decent claw with at least 8%+ base crit for offhand. Dagger works too but then you shouldn't pick those claw nodes and they're pretty cool (Claws of Magpie is awesome at times for example).

Claws can get almost as high base crit as daggers, 8%+. The problem is the claw passives are much worse for crit. It's still a damage increase but your damage will be uneven because you won't be able to get 80%+ crit chance. You will find this very annoying if you play solo, in groups it's not such a big deal, mob hp is high so it evens out.

I guess you like Shadows. Your build would probably be better as Ranger, but yeah what can you do.

1 more thing, you seem to be going out of your way to get life, but it seems you missed the Heart of Oak in the Ranger area, it's very good.

Thank you, both of you for the constructive tips. And thanks Zed_ I'll surely get the heart of oak.

I'm pretty experienced with claw builds, and I can personally attest that claws of the magpie is pretty dumpster.

I'd recommend dropping those nodes and taking the nice shadow crit nodes and streching up to the claw crit cluster.

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zSavage wrote:

I'm pretty experienced with claw builds, and I can personally attest that claws of the magpie is pretty dumpster.

I'm pretty experienced with dual claw builds as well (three endgame dual claw chars) and i disagree! The attack speed bonus on those nodes is among the best in the whole skilltree so the DpS increase is significant. I would suggest going through the physical damage nodes at the Shadow start and getting the attack speed from the claw cluster instead. The charge steal bonus is just a fun little extra and doesn't do too much for most of the time but is extremely fun in those "monsters get X charges every 33 seconds" maps and especially the Zana version of this map mod. I also noticed that i have less trouble with dischargers since they will often loose their charges.

Besides that, i agree with most of what was said/written before. Claws work well with crit, although not to the extent of daggers or wands. For reference: this is my last dual claw crit Shadow build. It is pretty close to your concept (except for a rather heavy investment in crit) and works very well in endgame. I too used Bloodseeker plus a 9%+ critchance Terror Claw to get a relatively high and consistent critchance. My main skill is:
Dual Strike + Melee Splash + Melee Phys + Added Fire + Increased Critical Strikes

For boss killing, you can switch Melee Splash for Multistrike but otherwise you have a lot of attack speed already from passives, the rather high base attack speed and the dualwield bonus so i prefer to focus on dealing hard, consistent hits that freeze and shatter entire groups in 2 hits with Hatred.
The 6th link, if you ever get there, could be for example Crit Multi, Weapon Elemental Damage, Faster Attacks, Multistrike or Increased AoE.
The crit gem gives you a nice, consistent critchance and is more efficient than relying on power charges in this case*. Quality on the Melee Splash gem and maybe a Carcass Jack chest armour will greatly increase your AoE. Quality on Dual Strike gives you a huge crit bonus so i would recommend trying to get all three in the long run.
For auras, i recommend Hatred and Grace with Reduced Mana.
As an alternative route, you could also trade some damage nodes for reduced mana reservation from the tree and use Herald of Ash on top, which works great for a crit build.


*Note regarding Increased Critical Strikes vs. power charges:
At a high level with quality, the support gem will give you the same critchance bonus as 3-4 power charges (PC). This means that it is obviously always better than having 3 PC and still a bit better than having 4 PC since you will have the bonus "all the time" instead of "most of the time". PC really get good when you have a lot of them and from my own experience i would put the break even point to 4-5 PC. At 6+ maximum PC, the power charges win hands down but an evasion/life crit claw build would have a hard time picking up the Witch PC, so i prefer to use the critchance support instead, which also enables you to take the skillpoint from the bandits in Merciless.
On my CI dual claw Shadow, i used power charges instead since he is already in the Witch area for the ES boni there.

You don't need that much attack speed if you use multistrike, and faster atttacks. My own build uses Dual + multi + faster + splash + melee phys on full life + increased crit damage (CI). I shatter white packs in 75+ maps often with 2 swings (out of the three from multi). Multisrike cleans up targeting and enables faster, more intelligent play. I see no reason not to use it.

Regarding increased crit strikes gem: I would recommend not using it. I've tested it myself, and my character loses 3K dps (without charges). The loss would be larger with charges, since I use power and frenzy.

I gain power charges in two ways, that happen fairly automatically as I play.
1.) Flicker + Melee Splash + Curse on Hit + Assassin's Mark
I've tried a variety of ways to get charges, and this one is unquestionably the best. I use flicker to jump on mobs anyways, and this nets me charges quickly and easily.

2. Whirling blades + faster attacks + pcoc
I travel with this and often jump out of packs with it. It generates the occasional charge.

If the physical damage bonus from claws of the magpie were higher (say 24% instead of 12%) I would probably take it. Bu the issue is that the attack speed isn't really needed (my char has around 9 APS, which is fine), and it's a large point investment. The three shadow attack speed nodes and attack speed notable are better (though we take the notable anyways).

Regarding the tree: 2% mana leech should be fine (from the claw node). We don't need to take Blood Drinker.
I understand getting the attack speed if you don't use multistrike, but you should be using multistrike.
Here's a tree:
https://www.poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgYAsNii2cgU9W9qjBa_sbPmgSaV7UHLvWHipn9VS7VIjDbz6ioLcFKJ03DVXfIOSBGWAQk2PbjZnardSGKsbIy0xcLsFf0FtYo41CPo1o2_ZK8wcZsm6xTN6lFHRfTdqDIBMHznVG9XS3iyGX8rjX0k_TpCz3rWinfXI_b_3lb6TZL8xWegtxfdDXjrh3aA4TqzW68Km-Of4l5ieeCV5wpKfTiWFfafgu96AAZW6NN-
-that I would recommend. (Modification of Vargorn's tree) I utilize some duelist nodes and get better life, damage, attack speed, crit chance, and accuracy.

imo shadow is a bad start for this, ranger is superior. You want all the life you can get, with damage theres no point speccing baseline efficiency nodes like 4% attack speed and 12% phys unless its going to a notable thats got a lot of deeps, the start of shadow is just awful.


You want a lightning coil for survivability, its a resist strain on other gear but if you dont use it then you will always be extremely fragile when hits get through ur evasion. Hatred + Grace auras. Imo claws of the magpie is terrible, I wouldnt spec it. I agree Mind drinker is a waste too, you already got mana leech from Soul Raker and even if you didnt you would want to just get 2% on a ring rather than spend 3 points for it.

https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgIACC6bjRmO7YMAXtN-_rp9dZVmA4fv4xut73rnCnjrCpv8xUp945-Hdmegfyt311b61opNkiP2jX0wfFFHjb_d516Lg706Qkt43agwcdQjBbXPerIZMgGbJujWelNh629XRfRkr4o4Ff20xcLsYqydqmyMNj1tbLVI7UGmf7GzFr9h4iaVVUvdDb6nvTZlTUd-hNlgQWNwEdVXl0MxU7u_1XTthO8byAUteu9gSyfVbmnV-FuvYnkV9gAGTiq2QedU_94k_XBSKgvz6gHRr-ufguCVVug=

That would be my finished endgame tree, id use coil + rats nest with rares in every other slot, rustic sash belt. Personally Id do it critlite so to speak, spec crit but just gem out as if you wernt crit, youll have enough aps to crit regularly and ull do enough damage on a non crit to still be slaughtering mobs with decent claws. Use assassins mark now and then to get 3 charges for a little buff on big packs.

Im not sure about bloodseeker tbh, I have one, but my dual claw build I made uses these





I feel like some life on hit with a lot of leech the return is enough to stay alive without instant leeching, claws get insane amounts of leech.


thats my thoughts on it, gl with the build :)