Armor

"

raics wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

Then consider that it only effect's physical attacks.

And spells, don't forget spells. That's probably why they consider evasion and armor have similar scope, evasion protects versus attacks no matter the damage type and armor protects versus physical hits, no matter the type.

Yeah, elemental attacks are more common than physical spells but the latter are more annoying :)

I didn't know if i should add it. I mean you are correct, but lets compare end-game bosses that do physical spells vs elemental.

Then consider, in all honesty, a character only needs his layers of defenses against bosses in this game.

Everything else is just slaughter food on way to a potential rip/lootsplossion in the form of a unique name with a slowly decreasing red bar beneath it.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : i should clarify on this.

What i mean is, take items with your regular hp/tri resistance stats and no bonus to base defensive value's.
Then have some life leach/regen to boost your primary defense(health pool)
And have a granite/jade pot with a 90%+ roll on it for situational defenses.

Your basic game experience doesn't require anything more then this. What does need more then that are the bosses/unique's this game offers. And even then it's a question if it's worth the investment, since even a mass investment can yield no results on these foe's.

I think what armor really needs is a second mechanic.

Like evasion has the additional crit evade. Like energy shield has recharge.

I don't think you can alter the primary way armor works, beyond perhaps making the scaling slightly better, without either making physical hits against armor pretty much irrelevant or murdering evasion/ES builds. Resistances are achievable by all builds, armor rating is not.

I'm not quite sure what that second mechanic should be, perhaps something like any damage taken below some percantage of your armor value being dealt over the course of a single second rather than instantly.

As in, if you have 10k armor, let's put the percentage at 20% or something.

You suffer a 3k hit. 1k is dealt instantly. 2k over a single second.
Half a second later you've still got 1k to go and you're dealt another 3k hit. Since 1k is full from previous damage this time 2k is dealt instantly and 1k over a second.

I think something like that could perhaps make armor feel a lot more tanky whilst still taking the same amount of damage?

"

Boem wrote:

I didn't know if i should add it. I mean you are correct, but lets compare end-game bosses that do physical spells vs elemental.

Then consider, in all honesty, a character only needs his layers of defenses against bosses in this game.

Yeah, sadly, but that's one of the fundamental problems this game has. I don't think we need to go there, let's just assume it will change some day for the sake of discussion, who knows, it might.

"

Gobla wrote:

I think what armor really needs is a second mechanic.

Like evasion has the additional crit evade. Like energy shield has recharge.

Armor already has a secondary mechanic, it reduces incoming damage so you're less likely to get stunned.

"

Boem wrote:

Then consider, in all honesty, a character only needs his layers of defenses against bosses in this game.

Everything else is just slaughter food on way to a potential rip/lootsplossion in the form of a unique name with a slowly decreasing red bar beneath it.

flashback to Open Beta.
blue Voidbearer. extra projectiles.
bonus points if rare with any kind of extra damage modifiers :)
or how about just a bunch of LMP Tentacle Miscreations?

back to present.
Undying Discharger with extra crit.
Dropbears/Leapers with extra damage and crit...

bosses are scary and meant to RIP you.
occasional RNG-rolled badass monsters, in crazy situations, with modifiers that greatly augment their strengths - just do.

and in the grand total, I think I died more to "normal" mobs, than to bosses which very rarely surprise you with what they do.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

Then consider, in all honesty, a character only needs his layers of defenses against bosses in this game.

Everything else is just slaughter food on way to a potential rip/lootsplossion in the form of a unique name with a slowly decreasing red bar beneath it.

flashback to Open Beta.
blue Voidbearer. extra projectiles.
bonus points if rare with any kind of extra damage modifiers :)
or how about just a bunch of LMP Tentacle Miscreations?

back to present.
Undying Discharger with extra crit.
Dropbears/Leapers with extra damage and crit...

bosses are scary and meant to RIP you.
occasional RNG-rolled badass monsters, in crazy situations, with modifiers that greatly augment their strengths - just do.

and in the grand total, I think I died more to "normal" mobs, than to bosses which very rarely surprise you with what they do.

Here is the thing john.

I have been playing games for roughly 17 years now, in the early years on a professional level.(not that i got paid or anything, but i did compete with some of the top players of the world in some games)

To put it bluntly, i know the value's present in PoE, i know how to analyze a situation before i jump in, so the things you mention don't pose a threat to me as a player.

And i would pose, they only present a danger to people who cant evaluate or asses a situation accurately or get overconfident.

I agree that RNG can give you a tosser though if the stars align, but given good diligent observation of a situation pretty much nullify's this threat in PoE. Back that up with a solid understanding of the game mechanics and possible value's and you will rarely die to anything other then bosses in this game.

And usually even those deaths can be attributed to "hiy my screen ain't the actual game".(you know what i mean and i don't care to elaborate on that :'D )

Also about the augments, those are self-induced, like rolling a rippy map for example, in doing so you are creating the danger yourself and as such should approach the situation with that in mind imo.

I have run multiple -max double boss courtyards etc with under-geared characters (not on hc do :') ) and then i am just more mindful of my surroundings and approach.

There is a reason why people die at the start of new league's, it's a new addition to the mechanics and as such ads a new layer of RNG that needs to be tested :).

Peace,

-Boem-

"

raics wrote:

Armor already has a secondary mechanic, it reduces incoming damage so you're less likely to get stunned.

That's the primary mechanic, reduced damage. From which naturally follows that there's less chance to stun.

An evaded hit also doesn't stun you. ES grants 50% stun avoidance as well.

Evasion's additional roll for critical hits doesn't follow naturally from it's primary mechanic. It's a separate additional roll based on the same rating.
Just like ES recharging (or the 50% stun avoidance for that matter) are separate mechanics from it's main functionality.

Armor has no separate mechanic besides it's primary use of damage reduction. Armor does definitely need a separate additional mechanic based on armor rating.

Don't forget btw, they can buff armor by introducing new physical spells in act4.

There are many ways to "fix" armor and only a handful of options actually touch the armor mechanic as a whole.

I am actually waiting for act4 to give any solid feedback or have a serious discussion on most of these mechanics, i wanna see what GGG cooked under the hood in the last months.

I am hopeful sort of speak.

Peace,

-Boem-

should have gone with the "Shavronnes Plating" breastplate,

your fault !

"

Gobla wrote:

An evaded hit also doesn't stun you. ES grants 50% stun avoidance as well.

Yeah, that's what evasion does, but when you do get hit it doesn't do anything. It's not included in stun formula, it doesn't exist as far as stun is concerned, it has absolutely no interaction with it.

True, armor is only remotely involved with stun if it's included in damage formula, but I think we could still call it a secondary property just like life pool size reduces chance to be shocked, for instance.

a large part of the issue that armor is built to not work on its own, you need to some how reduce the damage coming in before armor so that it has a small number to calculate against its forumla.

like enfeeble or endurance charges. then again can you imagine invasion without the ability to get acrobatics?

the way i see it is if you can't get endurance charges .. dont even bother with armor , just get more life and use granite flasks for the small stuff.