GGG, Can you pleeeease give us better info on minion damage scaling changes?

Raics, that's fixing a problem which doesn't exist. For the vasr majority of skills, a +4 Empower may be good, but it isn't OP. For example, glvl24 Incinerate is 97-145 damage, while glvl28 is 137-205. That's 41% more Fire damage - a fair amount, but nothing too silly. SRS just has weird scaling where +glvl gave it a much higher multiplier than usual.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Malone wrote:

remove the "fire" attribute and you are ok.

No.

No no no no no.

I mean, we have a unique thing going on here, itemization-wise. +3 fire staff with no spell damage on it? We have someone who will want it. That would all go away if SRS lost its Fire tag.

This is not just about srs and spells

this is also about srs in relation to other summons and right now srs is the best summon period .

it is better than specters zombies and skeletons combined at the same time as a damage source when looking at the top end. and it can be used with them.

some of that comes from access to level 28, some comes from the fact that they dont need much investment from the tree.. no +1 nodes to deal with no minion survivability to deal with.

(funny thing a single srs has more dps than a zombie)

and apart from the staff no gear investment either.


they dont just beat the competition in the high tier ... there is no competition in the high tier

plus itemization in this game is pretty terrible, +3 staff or no +3 staff

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Raics, that's fixing a problem which doesn't exist. For the vasr majority of skills, a +4 Empower may be good, but it isn't OP. For example, glvl24 Incinerate is 97-145 damage, while glvl28 is 137-205. That's 41% more Fire damage - a fair amount, but nothing too silly. SRS just has weird scaling where +glvl gives it a much higher multiplier than usual.

I think it is, because it works on every skill out there that doesn't get damage from your weapon, conc effect, for instance is limited to AoE skills and it has a downside.

SRS is no more weird than other skills, it also gets ~10% more damage per level at levels over 20, that's the usual amount. However, it's the number of steps, that's why they usually increase gas and electricity price in steps, four levels at +10% each isn't 40% more, it's 46%, it's cumulative and it adds up quickly. Level 28 fire trap does 140% more damage than a level 20 one, that's insane.

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raics wrote:

SRS is no more weird than other skills, it also gets ~10% more damage per level at levels over 20, that's the usual amount.

Noop.

The problem is that GGG is clueless about the actual problem, even though they clearly are aware there is one. In 1.2 they nerfed damage at higher glvls by 20% - but glvl20 and glvl28 both got hit for about 20%, so Empower still OP in context - it is still about 70% more damage. Then in 1.3 another nerf, 8% this time... but still hitting glvl20 and glvl28 equally hard.

What they should do is (final answer):
1. For glvl01-20, undo previous nerfs.
2. For glvl28, keep the nerfs.
3. For glvl21-27, scale accordingly.

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raics wrote:

Level 28 fire trap does 140% more damage than a level 20 one, that's insane.

It's 56% more from glvl24 to glvl28. Strong indeed, but the SRS situation seems to be worse, and is at least on par.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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raics wrote:

Level 28 fire trap does 140% more damage than a level 20 one, that's insane.

It's 56% more from glvl24 to glvl28. Strong indeed, but the SRS situation seems to be worse, and is at least on par.

Yeah, in fact I think scaling with level might be too good and too easy, relatively speaking, of course. If you think of it, old LL RF Shav sporkers enjoyed a boost of similar magnitude as having a L28 gem, it was almost 2,5 times your normal damage and you had to base your whole build on it but it still got nerfed.

So, might be best that we just think of it as a way to promote using staves.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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raics wrote:

SRS is no more weird than other skills, it also gets ~10% more damage per level at levels over 20, that's the usual amount.

Noop.

The problem is that GGG is clueless about the actual problem, even though they clearly are aware there is one. In 1.2 they nerfed damage at higher glvls by 20% - but glvl20 and glvl28 both got hit for about 20%, so Empower still OP in context - it is still about 70% more damage. Then in 1.3 another nerf, 8% this time... but still hitting glvl20 and glvl28 equally hard.

What they should do is (final answer):
1. For glvl01-20, undo previous nerfs.
2. For glvl28, keep the nerfs.
3. For glvl21-27, scale accordingly.

+1

i myself support this idea. its not that srs is OP/a bad skill. its the scaling is bad. lvl28 gem dps is acceptable atm (thats with proper gear). but lower lvls are kinda bad compared to other skills.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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The point is it's _so easy_ to just pull values from a table they literally already have. The servers already know how much SRS base damage exists per level, and it would take Rory 2 minutes to pull it for us.

No, that's not how this works. There is no such table. There's a complicated forumla with several inputs, one of which is level. The server runs this to work out the stats of a monster at the time it's spawned. The final values are not in some easy-reference table we can just copy from. The only way to get this information is for someone to either calculate it manually (prove to error) or to spawn them at every level and work out the stats they have (via observation, or in the case of coders, adding logging or breakpoints to the client to let us see the numbers).

I'm busy with stuff for the upcoming patch at the moment, but the desire for more updated minion values has been noted.

dayum son, u just got Mark'd!