GGG, Can you pleeeease give us better info on minion damage scaling changes?

People have been continuing to use made-up SRS values since 1.2 hit, and they're just continuing to be more and more wrong now that 1.3 nerfed SRS even more.

When you say "did foo at higher levels, up to X% less (or more) damage at level 20", you're pretending that that tops off the buff/nerf, but we know for a fact that that isn't true. We can show this based on the difference between the 1.06 values (still staining the wiki at http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Summon_Raging_Spirit ) and the 1.15 values (which Rory kindly provided for us at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahqk9lptRHcMdHdjM1hTNTV1NzhBeEtQYlVvM1NvSFE#gid=4 ). On that patch you told us you buffed it "up to 66% more damage at gem level 20", which is true at level 20, but there at level 28 (the one level everyone interested in Uber Atziri actually cares about) we see 112% more damage on average.

When you released 1.2, you said "up to a 20% reduction in damage at level 20", but what does that mean at levels people actually care about? Crazy people with uber atziri build topics went around claiming they were still optimally hitting 15 mil DPS at those levels, causing you to nerf SRS again, this time claiming "8% less damage at level 20 of the gem".

Anyone playing the game can feel that at higher levels than 20, the nerf was harder than that, just like the 1.15 buff was grander than you claimed. I'm really sick of people playing SRS claiming that their base 1-hit damage at level 28 is 1692*.8*.92 = 1245 per hit on average. It's not, and when they claim that it is, that makes you guys just look straight at the final DPS they claim, letting you see the skill as some overpowered monster, causing you to nerf it again.

Please, Rory or _someone_, just give us the real values so that we can make build topics that have the real current SRS damage instead of pretending that it's still the same gigantic boss-murderizing demon that it was in 1.15. It's not anymore, I promise.

(even just silently updating the damn spreadsheet would be enough, there are links to it everywhere)
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Please, Rory or _someone_, just give us the real values so that we can make build topics


Maybe there are a lot more urgent to do than allowing people to brag in forum ?
The point is you don't need to know the real values to build SRS.
IGN TylordRampage
One other thing that is pretty big is that they nerfed srs when there are way better builds that are more promising candidates for the nerf bat. The biggest issue is that srs killing power comes from your 6 link attack line and with just a 4 link, frankly sucks. That means you will not be using the quantity and the rareity gems in your attack line. That is a huge draw back. As far as raw killing go, cast on crit builds, etc make my srs look like it is killing stuff with a stuffed toy. Srs builds are cheap until you actually decide to optimize and then they get pretty costly...and with the lowered magic find potential, not at all needing any sort of nerf...
well that's true but that's true for a lot of skills in PoE. 6L is a lot more powerfull compared to 4L.
The only skill that give its full potential in a 4L is RF as far as I know.
IGN TylordRampage
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Malone wrote:
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Please, Rory or _someone_, just give us the real values so that we can make build topics


Maybe there are a lot more urgent to do than allowing people to brag in forum ?
The point is you don't need to know the real values to build SRS.


The point is it's _so easy_ to just pull values from a table they literally already have. The servers already know how much SRS base damage exists per level, and it would take Rory 2 minutes to pull it for us. So even if the urgency is low, asking for something so easy shouldn't be met with this kind of rude response. (though I knew it would be, thanks for setting a poor example for the entire community)

This isn't about bragging, this is about knowing how wrong the bragging people are. The real values for DPS on SRS will be much lower than what people are claiming right now.

And actually, we do need the real values to build SRS. If the nerf hammer hit higher levels sufficiently harder than level 20, then suddenly empower could become worse than each of Melee Damage on Full Life and Added Fire Damage, against Uber Atziri.

(for the record I think it's unlikely that it was nerfed that badly, but it's _possible_)

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Malone wrote:
well that's true but that's true for a lot of skills in PoE. 6L is a lot more powerfull compared to 4L.
The only skill that give its full potential in a 4L is RF as far as I know.


While I agree with this post, once you see the real current DPS values I think you'll agree that a nerf is not going to be needed again (but I don't expect GGG to rescind the last nerf; it's still possible to run uber atziri with SRS in 1.3, but much harder, especially against the trio)
Last edited by codetaku on Jan 29, 2015, 9:20:41 AM
Bump, would really like GGG to notice this, if only so they can respond with "no we don't care if you know how futile your minions really are" (though would obviously prefer a real answer)
Bump again.... *sigh* it's the weekend now, but if anyone from GGG has a chance of noticing this, that'd be great....
Whine, kvetch, groan, *bump*

(for the record, I am re-checking the spreadsheet before every time I bump)
bump.... I'm vaguely expecting this to get locked, but at least if it does that'll mean someone with mod bits noticed it.... Not that that means anyone with access to the data I want will have noticed....
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The point is it's _so easy_ to just pull values from a table they literally already have. The servers already know how much SRS base damage exists per level, and it would take Rory 2 minutes to pull it for us.
No, that's not how this works. There is no such table. There's a complicated forumla with several inputs, one of which is level. The server runs this to work out the stats of a monster at the time it's spawned. The final values are not in some easy-reference table we can just copy from. The only way to get this information is for someone to either calculate it manually (prove to error) or to spawn them at every level and work out the stats they have (via observation, or in the case of coders, adding logging or breakpoints to the client to let us see the numbers).

I'm busy with stuff for the upcoming patch at the moment, but the desire for more updated minion values has been noted.

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