GGG's opinion on Mirror of Kalandra

I am writing to ask if a member of the design staff would please share the team's opinion on the Mirror of Kalandra.

My opinion is that it needs to go, for the sake of crafting.

2 months into a league, the effective value of a mirror is 100's-1000's of exalts if there is a crafted item available for service.

GGGs opinion is that legal duping is good for economeh

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lukeiy wrote:

My opinion is that it needs to go, for the sake of crafting.

2 months into a league, the effective value of a mirror is 100's-1000's of exalts if there is a crafted item available for service.

It will never go above the standard league price for mirrors.

2 months into Ambush it was ~100 ex with a few items available.

"

morbo wrote:

GGGs opinion is that legal duping is good for economeh

The thing is, it really shows how tunnel vision GGG are, and it again shows a big contradiction in their design and philosophy.


Remember their stance on uniques?
They don't wan't uniques to be the go to, no brainer, BiS item per slot. They want rares to be able to roll great and be the BiS.

This has a lot of merit, far better that we can hope for a good rolled rare drop rather than a unique that's the BiS killing all possibility of finding a better rare.

Then they go all derp with mirror and eternal implementation.
How is it any different that a mirror item takes the place of the unique in the scenario they wanted to avoid? OK, it's rare, but that wasn't really what is meant by "want rares to be able to roll great and be the BiS" in all intents and purposes the mirror item is the unique they didn't wan't.

Here's the kicker, though...

In the unique scenario they wanted to avoid... the player had the chance to find the BiS unique.

In the avoided scenario... the player had the chance to find the BiS rare.

In this fucked up eternal-ex-mirror scenario... there is no way any player, ever, is going to find a 6 T1, hand picked stats, divined to near perfection rare.


TL;DR

They took the scenario they wanted to avoid, made it 100 times worse, and implemented it.

GG

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Here's the kicker, though...

In the unique scenario they wanted to avoid... the player had the chance to find the BiS unique.

In the avoided scenario... the player had the chance to find the BiS rare.

In this fucked up eternal-ex-mirror scenario... there is no way any player, ever, is going to find a 6 T1, hand picked stats, divined to near perfection rare.


TL;DR

They took the scenario they wanted to avoid, made it 100 times worse, and implemented it.

GG

I don't agree with the eternal/mirror implementation but don't you think that this is obvious from any game that has a crafting system?

From any game that has a crafting system in place for high-end items, you can expect the crafts to be better than the drops. Otherwise it might as well not exist. Even without eternals, it was from players getting lucky exalting items back in the old days making the top-tier items.

"

Chundadragon wrote:

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Here's the kicker, though...

In the unique scenario they wanted to avoid... the player had the chance to find the BiS unique.

In the avoided scenario... the player had the chance to find the BiS rare.

In this fucked up eternal-ex-mirror scenario... there is no way any player, ever, is going to find a 6 T1, hand picked stats, divined to near perfection rare.


TL;DR

They took the scenario they wanted to avoid, made it 100 times worse, and implemented it.

GG

I don't agree with the eternal/mirror implementation but don't you think that this is obvious from any game that has a crafting system?

From any game that has a crafting system in place for high-end items, you can expect the crafts to be better than the drops. Otherwise it might as well not exist. Even without eternals, it was from players getting lucky exalting items back in the old days making the top-tier items.

Yes, I do think it's obvious.

GGG, however, didn't.

There was a certain situation they wanted to avoid, they still claim to be very careful with unique design so as to not create the situation.

Yet, this situation existed potentially as soon as they implemented mirrors.

^That right there shows the contradiction.

Now, to then go and implement eternals to work as they do, took that contradiction and amplified it massively. I mean, the chances of the stars aligning in original yolo exalting were small, but existed. Arguably there would still be that hope of finding a better item.

Remember, even if the stars aligned and you yolod 6 T1, even if it was the exact perfect 6 mods, they then had to be divined. Remember divining a 95% perfect item might put you back to a bad divine.

Now? Eternal at any stage you want. 97% perfect? Who cares, eternal that shit, let's go for 100%.

Come on, Chund, there's the same item out there for mirror with 6 variations. One item, several saved variants for different builds, all divined to near perfection.

Basically the BiS unique item that GGG wanted to avoid, but now for so many different builds and versions of builds.

Imagine, for example Lioneye's Glare.
This was one such unique that caused problems back in the day, even though you could find a better thicket.

What we have now is an LG ready to mirror for your LA build, a slightly different LG for your SA, another best for CI, another perfect for BM. EA? There's a version for you, too.

And we have this for every slot. For multiple bases.

And there's no way you are ever gong to 'find a rare that will roll better'. You can't even find this item or any that will come close, never mind better.

mirrors dont need to go completely to balance mirror monopoly out. A maximum amount of mirrored items per original item would do the job perfectly fine:

10 mirrors soft cap
20 mirrors hard cap
11th mirror on one item has the chance of 10% to destroy the original item
12th .. 20%
20th .. 100%

This way new items for mirroring needed to be crafted over and over again and the mirror could stay in game.

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LSN wrote:

mirrors dont need to go completely to balance mirror monopoly out. A maximum amount of mirrored items per original item would do the job perfectly fine:

10 mirrors soft cap
20 mirrors hard cap
11th mirror on one item has the chance of 10% to destroy the original item
12th .. 20%
20th .. 100%

This way new items for mirroring needed to be crafted over and over again and the mirror could stay in game.

Or just have it be able to mirror the item once.... Just one copy and have exalts and eternals drop a little more

"

Alea wrote:

better; using mirror of kalandra create 2x mirrored copies and destroy the original :)
usefull for dual weilding or rings btw

Nah.

The sad thing about the mirror/eternal situation is that actually ->

There is zero way to fix it now that it's in the game. Zero way.

All that idea would do is create exclusivity. You can't remove mirrors or eternals anymore now that they are firmly rooted in the game.

@Anuhart I agree that the way one item becomes several billion items is just plain bad game design. Even if they were to introduce eternals, good game design would dictate that one item is uhhh.. one item.