Some Thoughts on the Scion

Using the cloak isn't using MOM, it's using a unique that does MOMs job. In Scion's case it's the ability to be at both ends of the tree saving a good chunk of highway nodes.
IGN - PlutoChthon, Talvathir
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Autocthon wrote:
In Scion's case it's the ability to be at both ends of the tree saving a good chunk of highway nodes.


Yes, this is the whole point of the Scion. The weak starting nodes are the price you pay for that ability to mix and match from different parts of the tree.

If you're playing some straightforward, archetypal build like a physical melee tank or a crit-focused spellcaster, then it's no surprise that some archetypal class is best. That's how it should be, otherwise there'd be no point in having different classes.
I don't know if this is intentional or not, but True Strike is positioned pretty well. Almost worthless to any class, but to the Stave/Sceptre Scion, it's perfectly adequate. The life% attached to it makes it so - spending six points without unlocking life% was always a pain.

Command of Steel is a little too far away from Sentinel, and there isn't an equivalent Area of Effect radius cluster to complete the set, but this would pretty much complete exactly what I was asking for in the OPie.

I like it so much that I'm on the bandwagon with the people who want the infinite life wheel turned into Armour for symmetry, and have that life distributed around. Such as how Hired Killer works now. Life and Flasks could be juiced to 4% life, Combat Stamina could be life% with regen, and so forth.

Two birds, one stone.
Last edited by LimitedRooster on Aug 23, 2014, 1:26:35 PM
I can see the point of making the big life wheel into Armour. It wouldn't be too useful for non-Scions (Marauders and Duelists already have plenty of Armour in their starting area, as do Templars if they're investing in ES), but it would give the Scion an Armour option, which she doesn't really have at the moment (aside from taking Iron Reflexes).

Those 'defences on equipped shield' nodes are interesting. For characters wearing Armour and/or Evasion gear, they're not that significant compared to nodes that give a global boost to your favourite stat. But for ES users, the boost is potentially enormous (110% in the Spiritual Guardian cluster and 90% in the Command of Steel cluster - think how many ES nodes you'd need to match those numbers). Assuming your build doesn't need a special shield, you can totally go for broke with a rare Titanium Spirit Shield, focusing on the ES and not worrying about its other stats. Once you've done that, you have a lot more flexibility on the rest of your gear to wear pieces that are not especially high in ES.

As for Area of Effect, the Scion can already get three 4% nodes almost immediately. That makes her the third-best class for AoE (after Templar and Witch), which is not a bad place to be.
scion got nerfd, which was okay maybe a little bit too hard - but the problem is that after that most other classes got buffed, and scion stayed the same. so the gap got bigger!
ign: ALLRAUDER
The Ranger is almost absolutely ridiculous now. Not exactly sure why besides trying to match thrown daggers.

Extrinsic damage being amped up like that and in one cluster may be a good idea, it keeps its value up a bit as a relative % after you've taken root damage. But it leaves the Scion area extremely weak in comparison.

Maybe suggesting the scion be as strong as other classes in non-damage stats was too timid, especially under this new paradigm; maybe they should be the best at it. So there's an arguable reason to go there. Like 35 or 40% increased area of effect.
Last edited by LimitedRooster on Sep 12, 2014, 12:43:10 AM
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The Ranger is almost absolutely ridiculous now. Not exactly sure why besides trying to match thrown daggers.

Extrinsic damage being amped up like that and in one cluster may be a good idea, it keeps its value up a bit as a relative % after you've taken root damage. But it leaves the Scion area extremely weak in comparison.

Maybe suggesting the scion be as strong as other classes in non-damage stats was too timid, especially under this new paradigm; maybe they should be the best at it. So there's an arguable reason to go there. Like 35 or 40% increased area of effect.

I can tell you why the Ranger is ridiculous now: They buffed her Evasion nodes in her start area AND gave her more nodes outside her start Area with Evasion Rating on them (good ones too). This substantial buffed her defenses, and the pathing in her area of the tree was also substantially improved. (Related thing that happened tonight while I was playing: I managed to get a level 16 Ranger to have 70% estimated Chance to evade in the Siren's Cove without any Auras, just from gear and passive tree)
On the topic of the Scion start area, tbh it needs a complete rework. She needs her initial paths out of her start to have stats that work for a wide variety of builds, as well as more specialized (but still fairly general) clusters nearby to ensure good stat progression. Pre 1.2, the Shadow suffered from similar problem do the variety of builds he was supposed to support (melee, bow, and spell builds). They solved his issues rather nicely in 1.2 by make the dex path Physical Damage nodes (note that they don't say melee, so they work for bows and even things like Ethereal Knives and the Phys dmg on Glacial Cascade), and making the intelligence path elemental damage (most spells deal elemental damage, many non-spell things also deal at least some elemental damage; however there aren't many non-elemental spells, so the elemental damage nodes are more versatile than spell damage). This hints at what the Scion needs. She needs high versatility nodes for her initial paths, like Physical and Elemental Damage and life+[defense] (where [defense] matches the attribute the path is associated with). She has virtually no armour nodes anywhere near her, which makes running gear w/ armour on it inefficient (this is why my Scion is running all Shadow gear for defense, takes good advantage of the Eva and ES wheels she has, and the life is ofc still quite useful), the lack of armour needs to be addressed. Things like the Area Radius nodes and such can becomes small clusters (with notable) that are offshoots from these initial paths which can be filled in if desired, but otherwise avoided at no cost to overall pathing efficiency of your build. She also has to spend a minimum of 7 skill points just to reach the edge of her starting area, which is a bit high, especially since at present, her shortest paths contain overly specialized nodes in most cases, with a new layout, that number could come down by a point or two while also solving the above mentioned problems.
If the wheel offered an out without needing a multiple point investment she'd be fine with some minor stat buffs on her pathing.

She doesn't get dumped into particularly gimp highways by taking any of her outs.

Scion realistically has like 9 paths to choose from. none of them are on their own all taht powerful, and that's a bigger issue than anything else.

And I still hate the life wheel.

Edit: On Ranger & evasion... buffing the evasion rating isn't what made her good. buffing access to life and reducing enemy accuracy is what made her good.
IGN - PlutoChthon, Talvathir
Last edited by Autocthon on Nov 9, 2014, 6:13:50 PM
Nooooo guys, it was just her vastly improved life, movement speed [2], freebie 2% life leech and damage [1] that makes her a zoomy death machine. Split Arrow all day, every day. Point it in a direction of empty air and win everything. Duelist archery is dumpster status now, completely obsolete.

The current shadow area is an example of what happens if you cram too much of the damage source pie into one area. There's a lot of overlap. If you're using projectile spells for example, you definitely want Sniper. Really improves Fireballs.


[1] I mean come on. Even ignoring the archery boofs in Shadow: Nodes that give 10% increased attack damage AND 3% increased attack speed. Either of these are fine on their own, just not remotely impressive. A standard +300 dps or so. Combined, each of these adds at least +600 dps. And they lead into Deadly Draw, which is around +1,500 dps and makes your arrows flash through the screen nearly instantly. These new nodes are on par with dagger nodes, those things that give you free crit along with on par damage.

It's rather overcompensating for the lousy newbie experience of being at the mercy of RNGesus to drop you a usable bow. Which has low odds since its one weapon type out of a dozen.


[2] Anyone who doesn't take Quickstep can't be my friend.
Last edited by LimitedRooster on Nov 10, 2014, 8:11:25 AM

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