You ruined Standard with Legacy items!

What I'd do if I was GGG here...
1. From now on, leagues do not end. Ever*. At character creation, you can choose to go into the two most recently released Challenge leagues (with big banner flags), or pick from two different dropdown menus which allow you to play in older leagues (one softcore dropdown, one hardcore).
2. No softcore league dumps into any other league ever again.
3. Hardcore leagues now dump into the simultaneously released softcore league (ex: Invasion dumping into Ambush rather than Standard). These leagues might have radically different rules, but it's Hardcore and your character wasn't deleted, so quit complaining.
4. From now on, drop tables for any league don't change. Once an item is released into a particular league, it is always available in that league as a drop, with the same version for everybody. New leagues, however, would have modified drop tables for balance, including balance-fixed versions of overpowered uniques (or not having some items drop at all).
5. Standard and Hardcore would be renamed Legacy and Hardcore Legacy respectively, and their drop tables changed so the legacy versions of all uniques are droppable.
6. For all leagues forward, Eternal Orbs wouldn't drop at all.

* Although leagues would still be guaranteed not to end, if the number of existing leagues gets too massive even to be handled reasonably by a dropdown menu, eventually character creation for the oldest leagues may be disabled. This wouldn't end the league, it would just prevent new characters from entering it.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Jul 29, 2014, 12:53:02 AM
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
What I'd do if I was GGG here...
1. From now on, leagues do not end. Ever*. At character creation, you can choose to go into the two most recently released Challenge leagues (with big banner flags), or pick from two different dropdown menus which allow you to play in older leagues (one softcore dropdown, one hardcore).
2. No softcore league dumps into any other league ever again.
3. Hardcore leagues now dump into the simultaneously released softcore league (ex: Invasion dumping into Ambush rather than Standard). These leagues might have radically different rules, but it's Hardcore and your character wasn't deleted, so quit complaining.
4. From now on, drop tables for any league don't change. Once an item is released into a particular league, it is always available in that league as a drop, with the same version for everybody. New leagues, however, would have modified drop tables for balance, including balance-fixed versions of overpowered uniques (or not having some items drop at all).
5. Standard and Hardcore would be renamed Legacy and Hardcore Legacy respectively, and their drop tables changed so the legacy versions of all uniques are droppable.
6. For all leagues forward, Eternal Orbs wouldn't drop at all.

* Although leagues would still be guaranteed not to end, if the number of existing leagues gets too massive even to be handled reasonably by a dropdown menu, eventually character creation for the oldest leagues may be disabled. This wouldn't end the league, it would just prevent new characters from entering it.


Sounds lovely but you end up taking standard too seriously, while at the same time attempting to make it a joke.

Speaking as someone who isn't insanely rich but enjoys playing standard, I want to play unique builds. Something that hasn't been done before that can play with the big boys. Limiting the league to the balance of pre-temp leagues isn't going to open this up.

I don't know why people care about trying to balance standard, without periodical wipes there's no way any league can stay balanced very long. Do you want new interesting temp leagues or do you want a balanced standard league where old timers have upwards of a year and a half head start?
Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th
Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th
Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063
Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856
"
SL4Y3R wrote:
The mere fact that standard isn't the default league should give you a clear indication of what was to come.

It was never meant to be balanced. It was meant to be a place where people could keep their gear, their characters, and do whatever they want indefinitely.

Luckily, it's a PvE game, so someone owning something you don't has no effect.

P.S. They could disable legacy gear for PvP.


There are no legacy skill trees so people do not keep their builds.
This message was delivered by GGG defence force.
Last edited by mazul on Jul 29, 2014, 1:19:25 AM
I'm not trying to balance Standard. Hell, I'd say adding old legacy uniques back on to the drop table would be a deliberate attempt to unbalance Standard. I say let them play with all of their old broken OP toys. I'm a fan of legacy items, actually; I'm not necessarily a fan of making legacy items inaccessible by farming.

What I'm really trying to do here is limit cross-league trading and the effect it has on the economy.

When you dump a player from whatever league they were in before, into a league which they voluntarily chose not to play at some point in the past, you should be expecting cross-league trading from that player — that's just human nature. This gives a lot of power to certain less-than-legitimate sites on the internet, which can collect the player's items in exchange for either real money or credits towards items in the league they actually enjoy playing. This type of design encourages real-money sites and botting and artificially inflates the economies of the leagues which are dumped into.

For some reason, GGG decided that Standard should be the designated dumpee. Which means the effects of these practices on its economy are the most profound. Because Standard's economy has inflated faster than its natural progression due to dumping practices, RMT is more alluring in that economy as a means of progression.

The primary purposes of my suggestion are:
1. To stop temp-to-perm dumping entirely, which would functionally eradicate softcore-softcore and hardcore-hardcore cross-league trading.
2. To spread out hardcore-to-softcore dumping more evenly across the available softcore leagues, such that no one league is the perpetual victim. This wouldn't eliminate softcore-hardcore cross-league trading, it would just make each softcore league take on its fair share of the effects.

The whole "legacy item" thing is just a consequence, not really a motivation behind, my suggestion.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Jul 29, 2014, 1:25:56 AM
"
RoyalStar wrote:
GGG should to do something to fix the Standard League, me and some my friends quitted standard, someone definitely quitted PoE after legacies.

Jeez, they better make all their current long-term supporters angry as fuck just to get that someone of your friends back.
Last edited by Nightmare90 on Jul 29, 2014, 4:28:52 AM
"
Moosifer wrote:

When people are going for the items they have specific things in mind. When things get changed, it could be minor, personally I don't think the shav nerf was a big deal. But the thunderfist nerf was fucking huge for one of my builds as it was one of the main sources of damage. Nerfing them made my build much weaker, with the nerfed version I haven't really considered remaking that build in a new league. That's the difference, I can still keep my hard work, putting together a build no one else had done prior, but now it's not as powerful and not worth it, but at least I have it intact still.

Your soliloquy sounded pretty convincing up until this example of frank self-indulgence. It must have been devastating, that which was brutally wrought upon Legacy Thunderfists:

"
Thunderfist Murder Mitts

Adds 1–100 Lightning Damage
10% increased Attack Speed
+(25 to 30) to maximum Energy Shield
100% increased Shock Duration on enemies
10% increased Stun Duration on enemies
Gems in this item are Supported by level 18 Added Lightning Damage


The sole difference after the "fucking huge nerf"?

Adds 1–40 Lightning Damage

So your build was so frail it couldn't handle a wrist-slap like that? How in heaven's name did it endure the gut-wrenching Skill Tree purges and keystone dislocations that have been repeatedly imposed since Release?

Here's the ugly sticking point your impassioned plea for the reverent Preservation of All Your Hard Work brings up. Judging from GGG actions to date, the pristine pay2win dignity of Legacy trophies must remain sacrosanct above all other considerations of gameplay balance. In stark contrast, the long hours of faithfully grinding out Skill Tree builds, one level at a time by players across the entire breadth of the game, is treated like little more than a trivial pursuit, cavalierly trashed into oblivion anytime GGG feels the whim.

Do you get the impression I'm only mocking your conceits out of mere "jealousy", that I'm vindictively determined to deprive you of your precious Legacies? To the contrary, I fervently believe you deserve nothing less than to have all your trophies bequeathed to you forever:

When an item is anointed with Legacy status, let it henceforth be Bound Unto Your Account.

And for good measure, may the same fate apply to Mirrored items as well.
Last edited by RogueMage on Jul 29, 2014, 5:36:01 AM
"
Moosifer wrote:


By nerfing the items GGG is admitting they made a mistake, it happens, changing future drops corrects the problem in the leagues that matter, the temp ones where they are trying to achieve some sort of balance but allows people to enjoy their hard work in a sandbox league as it almost is.


Its great that they are fully balancing the temporary leagues but if they don't want to do the same thing in standard then the fair thing to do is leave the all alone. They accomplished absolutely nothing by making the future versions undroppable.

"
Also, how in the world does standard's economy get saved when it's the dumping ground for every other league?


Making some of the most interesting items far more expensive didn't exactly help did it?



Standard Forever
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
What I'd do if I was GGG here...
1. From now on, leagues do not end. Ever*. At character creation, you can choose to go into the two most recently released Challenge leagues (with big banner flags), or pick from two different dropdown menus which allow you to play in older leagues (one softcore dropdown, one hardcore).

The game simply doesnt have a community big enough to support a concept such as this one and you should know that by now.

You will end up with people who play new leagues for the challenge and some that constantly stay behind in league X, Y and Z. By doing so the amount of people who play respective leagues will rip the community apart, especially in hardcore leagues. Doing that will definitely not lead to success, but more and more people quitting due to a lack people they can map with.
Last edited by nynyny on Jul 29, 2014, 9:07:00 AM
@nynyny: Hardcore players will always play primarily in the most current league, with very few players in any other Hardcore league. You say it's "ripping the community apart," but if that's the case then having only two Hardcore leagues is still sufficient to rip it apart anyway.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
That might be right to some extend but I personally feel that theres a gigantic difference between having to choose from 2 and 5 leagues. After all, one of the main reasons why no one plays HC anymore is because the difficulty compared to the new leagues usually is a joke. But if you leave challenging leagues available, people will maybe ditch something like Invasion and keep playing in Nemesis because there are too many bugs for them to bother. Because of that they maybe never end up giving the league another shot and keep playing what they are used to.

Besides: No one plays Hardcore anymore because by the time the new leagues were released Hardcore was already out for 10 months if I remember right. 10 months are a pretty decent time to gather wealth. 4 months on the other hand isnt to a lot of people. Meaning: If youre not finished, and youre not forced to finish, youre more likely to carry on and not abandon what you build, especially when there are other people who share that sentiment. That will lead to those people not being forced to reroll in the new league, which is bad because it reduces the playerbase significantly.

If anything I can see this working for SC because the playbase is bigger, but certainly not in a HC environment.
Last edited by nynyny on Jul 29, 2014, 9:21:18 AM

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info