Pros and Cons of Mirror of Kalandra

Gday Exiles... I posted this discussion topic on reddit and thought I would repeat it here in this POE community

http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/2au9jc/discussion_pros_and_cons_of_mirror_of_kalandra/


Disclaimer, despite starting this topic I have absolutely no opinion on the matter… and probably little knowledge either (since I’ve never come near one) which is why I’ve started the discussion. Aside from the obvious benefits of being the hardest currency item to find ,and the ability to copy some other item, what other Pros and Cons do they bring to the game? Allow me to pose some questions to start:

What impact does copying someone else’s craft have on the overall economy? BiS items take huge initial investment, but provide endless BiS items to multiple players in the community who can find/trade for a Mirror plus Service Fee. If Mirrors were not available, would the economy consume more currencies as each BiS item would ultimately need to be crafted? Would more players settle for near BiS (say 5/6 tier 1 rolls) if the craft consumed too much currency? Do mirrors make it easier or harder for RMT? If mirrors didn’t exist, and each BiS had to be crafted, would this make it more difficult for RMT to turn in a profit (ie item A takes 50ex to luckily roll as BiS and item B takes 2000ex to roll as BiS… obviously item B is more of a “loss” if sold)? What impact would removing Mirrors have on the game?

As I said, I have no position on the topic, but thought it would make for an interesting discussion from those who craft, trade and know the economy better.

Cheers and happy hunting/crafting
Chris Wilson: "Today was the proudest day of my life."
I'm not passionate about the topic, so I might not be the most informed, but maybe it gives me a bit of clarity on the situation?

Yes, it does make things easier for RMTers. Instead of consuming a variable amount of currency to gain an amazing item, they only ever have to craft one and then get Mirrors.

As to how negatively this currency's existence is for the game and for RMT, it's my opinion that it ties directly to how often it drops.

Then again, my impression is some people argue that since it's so rare it's even more of a problem, since the item exclusively caters to the ultra rich.
Last edited by elitedesolator on July 16, 2014 9:56 AM
GGG had the right idea to counterbalance mirroring BiS items with vaal orbing. Someone could have a mirror worthy item, and if they were rich or crazy enough to corrupt it, it could be worth like what, thousands of exalts if it had a really good implicit and colors. And there would only be one of it, ironically truly unique. Of course, similar items would eventually arise but the main thing is none of these could be mirrored. The amount of currency needed to produce said uber corrupted former mirror worthy items would be astronomical considering high chance of bad corruptions but thats what the purpose of all this is, another currency sink. And that is good. But the question is, will anyone or has anyone corrupt(ed) BiS stuff...
Last edited by Tyrfalger on July 16, 2014 10:57 AM
The problem IMO is not in Mirror itself but rather in the whole "crafting" landscape.

For majority of players (I have no 10k+ statistical poll to back this claim with evidence, but bear with me) everything that is above Exalted orb is NOT a crafting currency. It is just money banknote to buy (~trade) something else.

To put it simple, RNG controls all your life in Wraeclast as an average person. All your alchs, chaoses, fusings and exalted orbs can end up totally wasted, null, naught.

The only way to work around this RNG Russian rulette is to actually be rich enough to use heaps of Eternal orbs in the process, ending up with a BiS item at the very end (after many, many Exalted and Eternals were used). Then, you can "cheat" RNG punishing the mere mortals AGAIN by straightforwardly multiplying your precious items, no risk involved, just pure wealth required.

This combination of features in my opinion just begs for seeing RMT everywhere, under every stone, be it real or just imaginary, created by frustrated "normal players" (and mind me, I respect every wealthy player out there and I do not envy them their richest). In this environment, accusations of RMTing, real or imaginary, are abundant.

So what to do? I suggest:

- Both Eternal orb and Mirror to have X% chance to fizzle, rendering the item "corrupted"
- Both Eternal orb and Mirror to have increased drop rate to compensate

EDIT:

Alternative proposal, introduce "Corrupted Exalted orb" and "Corrupted Mirror" orbs with above mentioned features and with very wild settings (75% chance for the item to get Corrupted, but drop chance increased from 'never in a life time' to 'few times in a month') - this could enable even poor players to taste the fruit
Last edited by aldorus on July 16, 2014 11:22 AM
"
The problem is that the game's design paradigm revolves around loot, the acquisition of it and the journey to get it or as Chris put it "so you can show off your gear to others".

Mirrors are antithesis to this. By virtue of how they work, BiS gear isn't treated as a goal at the end but rather a fixed-income security. You craft the first one and the mirror fees thereafter are your dividends. And you reinvest these dividends into your next BiS item.

The worst part is, once you make the first item, you are forevermore the early entrant to the market, the monopoly and the market leader. And eternals make this problem worse because you are able to imprint many different combinations of the same item, be it socket colours or final t1 property - which means you don't only own a monopoly on 1 item, you own a monopoly on an entire segment of the market. This discourages others from attempting to craft the same item because they could just mirror it for a fraction of the cost.

GGG keeps on emphasizing the importance of their economy (as they keep stressing to me in my unique design creation) and yet they allow this combination of eternals+mirrors to exist. Quite oxymoronic no?


Whatever I said on reddit.

The problem with mirrors is that you can have your cake, sell the cake, eat the cake and then later on make another cake with a different flavour using the sales revenue from the first cake.

Eternals also mean you could make that same cake with four different toppings and sell all of those cakes but you only used ingredients to make one cake.
Last edited by Lyralei on July 16, 2014 11:29 AM
The Mirror of Klandra is poorly designed.
Why?

Just think of it how a mirror works:

It is cheaper to aquire the most rare item, a mirror, than to aquire the wealth needed to craft another godlike item.
That's outright crazy.

It should be the other way around:
The mirror should provide a safe option to get an extremly good item while actually using the currency worth a mirror should wield better items in average.


Another aspect of mirror, basicly generating "free weahlth" for the owner of the original item is stupid as well. Nothing should be free in a game like POE, especially lot's of exalted orbs. Getting the best item in a game should be rewarding enough ffs!



Last edited by overpowdered on July 16, 2014 11:58 AM
You all are talking about how people play... not about the item itself. People choose to enter the economy, and that economy isn't "fair". It favors those that can exploit it, either through luck, cheating, or time and skill. For those that choose to stay out of it, a mirror is just a trophy. It will sit unused as an indicator to me that I've found one. It literally will serve no purpose what so ever except to occupy a slot in my inventory.

The fact that you all seem to value them so highly gives me the giggles sometimes.
"
Shagsbeard wrote:
You all are talking about how people play... not about the item itself. People choose to enter the economy, and that economy isn't "fair". It favors those that can exploit it, either through luck, cheating, or time and skill. For those that choose to stay out of it, a mirror is just a trophy. It will sit unused as an indicator to me that I've found one. It literally will serve no purpose what so ever except to occupy a slot in my inventory.

The fact that you all seem to value them so highly gives me the giggles sometimes.


??????

How people use an item is determined in large part of how USEFUL IT IS.

So what exactly is your point lol? How the hell can you discuss an item without talking about how it is used?
I was. For me, it would have no use. There would be literally nothing I could do with one.
"
Shagsbeard wrote:
I was. For me, it would have no use. There would be literally nothing I could do with one.


Then it has also failed its design purpose for people like you. Because it is so rare you just never use it because the item that's "worth using it on" never comes along.

Its like full restoration potions in other games and the Master Ball in Pokemon. You just never use them because you'll probably get another one.
Last edited by Lyralei on July 16, 2014 12:15 PM

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