Pledge Of Hands staff

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Midnightgem wrote:

Excuse me, but on your profile it says you began playing in March of 2014.

no, it doesn't say that.

that's an account creation date.

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Midnightgem wrote:

A whole bunch of non-math and non-justifications.

Man, it's too bad nobody can actually run numbers/spreadsheets anymore, and actually come to conclusions, rather than just talking randomly!

it can be good if using kaoms chest imo

No +2/1 gem level so not op.

Biggest pro is that it's a cheap 6L.

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Veruski wrote:

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Midnightgem wrote:

A whole bunch of non-math and non-justifications.

Man, it's too bad nobody can actually run numbers/spreadsheets anymore, and actually come to conclusions, rather than just talking randomly!

This thread is about feedback. Feedback ranges from Verbal to Mathematical, and both are acceptable mediums of conversation.
Quick Definitions for the Ignorant:


Thus it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that any form of feedback is information, and that any form of information is relevant to a topic. But, I can satisfy your request for math, with some simple facts.

a searing touch is still stronger than this

also a +2 to gems is basically a free link as well since its equivalent to level 3 empower

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Midnightgem wrote:

Secondly, I don't believe you understand the power of:

Teach me master!

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Midnightgem wrote:

6L ---> Freeze Pulse + Faster Casting (or Crit Multi) + Cold Penetration + Empower + Greater Multiple Projectiles + Echo

The 7L will have a slightly higher casting rate (about 20%), yet, the 6L will have a +4 gem level advantage, which equates to roughly 30% more damage per cast. 6 casts at 100% effectiveness versus 5 casts at 130% effectiveness is roughly 600% vs 650% effectiveness.

Now, add in the extra 100%+ Crit chance on the stave, the 30%+ Crit Multi, the 22% Faster Casting, and take away about 40% Increased Spell Damage, and we can easily see that a well-rolled +1/+2 Stave beats Pledge by Miles... Especially given how 38% Crit Multiplier can be a damage effectiveness of 20-30% easily...

This analysis is incorrect.

1) These gem configurations are not optimal

2) Even if the gem comparisons were optimal, none of your numbers come from any basis. I tested with a bunch of sample cast rates, and nowhere did I get "about 20% higher cast speed" for the 7L.

3) 38% crit multiplier is not a very large amount, nor is 100% crit chance (at least, not for spells). These types of bonuses are absolutely comparable to the 40% extra spell damage you would get on the unique staff.

4) You're comparing to a mirrored staff. Even if a mirrored staff was a tiny bit better, that would already dictate that Pledge of Hands is way too strong. Mirror rares should crush unique items. If they aren't, there's a balance problem.

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iamstryker wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

i know it 'means nothing' but current standard price of this staff is 70ex

and i tend to believe 'the market' as people that play it do it for real money so they mostly know what they are doing

that new ring goes for token 1ex already

and im pretty sure that ring shall go for less and staff quickly rise to mjolner levels as people are still not so familiar with just HOW SICK that lvl 30 echo is in a 6link

I could easily be wrong but I don't see that staff following in Mjolners footsteps. There have been many times that a unique will start at a very high price like 60-80ex when its released and then fall until it more reasonably fits the item. Sort of like that new sword with tons of lightning damage Hyaons Fury. It went for a ton for quite awhile and now I believe its worth maybe an exalt.

If I am not wrong about the power of the staff then I expect it to end up worth around 10ex unlinked. Only time will tell.

Edit: What I would expect from this unique is that it has the approximate DAMAGE of high quality 1H shield combos. of course its not going to have the defense that a shield provides so hopefully the staff can produce the damage to make it worth using. The biggest downside IMO is that the staff is not going to be very good until you get it 6Led. Thats a lot different than an item like Mjolner.

Decided to find and bump this thread just to gloat a little about how right I was lol. Pledge of hands is right around 10ex unlinked right now on xyz.

I've ran the damage numbers on Pledge of Hands with a few builds against high end wand-shield and wand-wand stats to get an idea of how strong it is. I'm not going to make a long post on the math, but it is generally much worse for crit builds and only slightly worse for non-crit builds (0-10% DPS loss vs wand-wand). It varies a little by skill depending on just how useful the extra link is, but I didn't have a single case where it was more damage than spending 7-10 exalted orbs on two wands. The damage is generally slightly higher than wand-shield for non-crit builds, but that is to be expected for the defensive stats a shield can provide.

That said, Pledge of Hands provides two significant benefits:
1. Pledge of Hands is a second 6-link for your character (technically 7-link) and favours red and blue sockets. If you want to use 4+ blue gems for your primary skill and, say, Lightning Coil on a caster, suddenly this staff is appealing if only for the ease of colouring.
2. Really good wands and caster shields are hard to find for trade in fairly new leagues unless you're well-connected. This staff is available for ~7-8 exalted orbs within a week.

The staff is definitely very strong, though, considering I had to compare it against wands which cost several exalted orbs and the additional flexibility it provides for chest armour.