Let's talk about Dual Wielding...

"
pneuma wrote:


Dual Strike single target, Ground Slam for aoe. It's alright and does a good job of trashing bosses (which can get stunlocked with enough investment), but it's way less survivable than mace+shield and way less damage than dagger+dagger dual striking. Kinda worst of both worlds, which is a shame.


Well that is kind of how the build is meant to be. Less survivable than a shield. The thing you have over dual strike daggers is your stun lock. Which is very nice to have in full map groups. By the way, how much of a boost did the buff give you?
<3 Free Tibet <3
"
Opinionated wrote:
"
pneuma wrote:
Dual Strike single target, Ground Slam for aoe. It's alright and does a good job of trashing bosses (which can get stunlocked with enough investment), but it's way less survivable than mace+shield and way less damage than dagger+dagger dual striking. Kinda worst of both worlds, which is a shame.
Well that is kind of how the build is meant to be. Less survivable than a shield. The thing you have over dual strike daggers is your stun lock. Which is very nice to have in full map groups. By the way, how much of a boost did the buff give you?
It is "right" in design to lose damage and gain survivability moving to a shield.

The problem is in the numbers. You gain so much survivability with the shield that you can give up some defensive passives and get more good offensive ones (so something like 70% defensive/30% offensive on the tree).

There is no corollary moving from 1h+s to dw. Even with a fully defensive tree (100% defensive/0% offensive on the tree), you'll be dying a lot. Perfect play only accounts for so much. Also the lack of spell block sources is pretty brutal later on.

The stun is decent, but killing enemies much faster (and note that "more damage" helps you stun anyway, or just outright kill them and stun is irrelevant) is the safer option with better damage. 1h+s can stun more easily, oddly enough, since you can afford to take all the "stun threshold reduction with mace" nodes.

The bigger problem is how it compares to other weapon types. Claws/Daggers get much higher damage due to their crit. Swords are comparable, but they lend themselves to fast ele-attacking builds ("Buzzsaw") due to their immense base aspd. Axes/Maces? Well, their stun duration innates stack in the mace case, but you have to do a physical build for either of these.

Given that I was a physical build (not an elemental one), the buff is huge. Still doesn't solve the defensive dilemma. Damage was never really a problem. I had already given up a lot using maces (purely for aesthetic reasons) over claws/daggers.
Dual wield has more defense than 2 handers. Why don't people complain more about 2 handed builds?

I am fine with my defense as a dual wielder at the moment. I can solo Kole, Piety, Chaska (sp), Dominus. I've done random maps but maps aren't really my interest. After I get a few more levels I am doing an Atziri attempt. I guess that will be a good test.

I made my dual wielder after the buff. So far it is one of my favorite characters. Perhaps I am looking at everything through rose tinted glasses.
<3 Free Tibet <3
"
Opinionated wrote:
Dual wield has more defense than 2 handers. Why don't people complain more about 2 handed builds?
This thread is specific to dual-wielding (though it does come up). :P

2handers have most of the same concerns, but they can pump out way more damage than dual-wielding can, which gets them closer to the "alpha strike" defense of just killing everything as it spawns.

Note: The best melee damage in the game right now is crits, and the best way to crit is with one of kolp's silly-daggers, so 2handers don't have the absolute best damage. Definitely better damage with limited funds, though.

"
Opinionated wrote:
I am fine with my defense as a dual wielder at the moment. I can solo Kole, Piety, Chaska (sp), Dominus. I've done random maps but maps aren't really my interest. After I get a few more levels I am doing an Atziri attempt. I guess that will be a good test.
Indeed.

The defensive worries start to crop up when you find yourself without spell block, struggling to overcap resists (with no +allres shield to fall back on), missing 100 base life from the shield, and getting block above 50%.

This is even more painfully true for ES users who can be missing not 100 base life but 500-700 base eshield. Oof.
Last edited by pneuma on Jun 9, 2014, 4:27:21 PM
Build of the week is dual wield!!......dual strike /eye roll

In other news, I solod temple Piety with 0 spell block. I'm counting it as a win.
<3 Free Tibet <3
"
Opinionated wrote:
Build of the week is dual wield!!......dual strike /eye roll

In other news, I solod temple Piety with 0 spell block. I'm counting it as a win.



Yeah, dual wield physical. Dual strike at that. And his build was incredibly strong before the 20% buff. That was just icing on the cake. I wonder if they chose to feature a DW build to counter all the people in this thread suggesting that DW still needs work?

Y'all think we will ever see an elemental DW build of the week?

"


What attack speed weapons have you been using for elemental DW? In general you really want a 2+ attack speed weapon for it, even if such a weapon has lower dps on it than a slower one.




These are the 2 of the highest ele dps claws according to xyz. I use tiger paw base b/c of the +15 lgoh implicit, and it's the fastest claw base. I can't get 2+ attack speed, but 1.9 is still very fast.
"The Eye of Ra appears against you,
His force is powerful against you.
She devours you, she punishes you
In this her name 'Devouring Flame."
-Anubis Hotep
Last edited by Wadjet on Jun 10, 2014, 12:40:28 PM
"
Opinionated wrote:
Build of the week is dual wield!!......dual strike /eye roll

In other news, I solod temple Piety with 0 spell block. I'm counting it as a win.

Not going to lie, I had the same reaction. XD

"
kolp wrote:
"
What attack speed weapons have you been using for elemental DW? In general you really want a 2+ attack speed weapon for it, even if such a weapon has lower dps on it than a slower one.




These are the 2 of the highest ele dps claws according to xyz. I use tiger paw base b/c of the +15 lgoh implicit, and it's the fastest claw base. I can't get 2+ attack speed, but 1.9 is still very fast.

Yeah, those are some damn nice claws :D
"Nothing happened." - CharanJaydemyr, TheWretch


Sayya's Item Filter (updated for Ritual!) - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1260712
Just throwing an idea out there.

Elemental double strike. Off hand with weapon elemental damage prefix. Maybe dagger main hand for super critical strike chance. Claw off hand for life gain on hit.
<3 Free Tibet <3
"
Opinionated wrote:
Just throwing an idea out there.

Elemental double strike. Off hand with weapon elemental damage prefix. Maybe dagger main hand for super critical strike chance. Claw off hand for life gain on hit.


Insane damage boost.
You can also get that elemental damage on a shield, just a tip.
"
Opinionated wrote:
Dual wield has more defense than 2 handers. Why don't people complain more about 2 handed builds?

I am fine with my defense as a dual wielder at the moment. I can solo Kole, Piety, Chaska (sp), Dominus. I've done random maps but maps aren't really my interest. After I get a few more levels I am doing an Atziri attempt. I guess that will be a good test.

I made my dual wielder after the buff. So far it is one of my favorite characters. Perhaps I am looking at everything through rose tinted glasses.


2 handed builds have 2 potential 6 links,or 1 6L and a kaoms.That puts far above dual weild overall.That being said they are still crap compared to one handed+shield.

Curently(like always) there are 2 viable melee builds for end game
1)dagger or claw critical build + shield
2)soul taker or insane sword with reave nad resolute technique + max block(oreferably with aegis aurora).


1. has better clear speed,and can do better against atziri,while 2. can get you easier,safer to 100.Sure u can make it to 100 with 2 handers,or dual weilding i guess,but these are extreme case and they are the exception.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/417287 - Poutsos Flicker Nuke Shadow
Last edited by Poutsos on Jun 10, 2014, 8:00:24 PM

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info