So glad they shut you up and humbled you for me :)
I am not late on anything, you said hatred and added fire would double dip if dual wield got a 20% more to all damage multiplier. I stated a fact, they would not. No one asked for a separate buff to elemental damage. And you clearly do not know what the word double dip means here. A 20% more damage multi is the same thing as say conc effect with cyclone and hatred, there is no double dipping.
it is <1k, which means 95%+ of physical builds are getting the vast, vast majority of their dmg in
Really, why every single element build tries to sacrifice a gem slot for a pen gem? Monster resists eat up a lot of elemental dmg
And how do you know how much armour monsters have?
This talk about elemental vs physical is nonsense. Hatred and added fire both get a buff from dual wielding. All skills that convert physical to elemental damage get a buff from dual wielding. If they gave elemental damage a separate buff then physical builds will double dip.
*Edit* I just did an in-game test. I gain 1100 cold and 1100 fire damage, just from dual wielding. I am not even using a mirror weapon. I gain 2.2k dps just from dual wielding.
Your anger is blocking your reading comprehension apparently. So I took the liberty of bolding and underling the important parts. Vipermagi was kind enough to provide your "stated facts" well before you. Thus, why I said you were late to the party. Maybe with these free bumps GGG will chime in with our answer.
Yeah he provided the link, and I am here to say 'told you so'.
I recall Vipermagi having the same frustrating time as me at explaining [Removed by Support] here: The fact that again, no one asked for a separate buff to ele damage and is something you conjured up. It can be a buff to overall damage and nothing will double dip. Coverted damage gets increases and more multipliers in one stage. Page 5, 6th post. [Removed by Support]
Last edited by Kieren_GGG on Jun 8, 2014, 8:15:57 AM
let's try to have a civil, consolidated discussion
Come on guys...
"The Eye of Ra appears against you,
His force is powerful against you.
She devours you, she punishes you
In this her name 'Devouring Flame."
-Anubis Hotep
you dont need a curse to reduce physical resists, because 99% of your dmg gets through. Elemental resists are everywhere, so even a 1:1 ratio of phys:ele on the sheet would mean less dps for ele users. I would say that is an issue.
Hatred actually ends up being a multiplier with both mpd and wed, that makes hatred a physical only build dps choice even though its really elemental, albeit converted.
Problem with (pure) ele builds
Monster resists vs 99% physical dmg penetration - NOT feasible to use 3x pen gems, cannot curse all mobs, curse immune maps and rares, cursing slows down kill speed so reduces dps in a way
Multipliers and increases are simply not as abundant and impactful as for physical
You mentioned it yourself - you really need both auras, which is no joke taking into consideration players like myself give priority to other auras and will mostly run 2 at a time. (especially a melee build)
Devs dont like it? (lol, seems so, why does dual wield only get a more to physical?)
[Removed by Support] The worst part is we are agreeing and you do not even realize it.
Well race is over, I did terrible lol. Now that I have time to do proper maths I can agree with you Vipermagi, in that adding a new modifier would work as you say.
I can only come up with 3 ideas.
They didn't want to add a new modifier.
They think elemental damage is stronger than physical.
They overlooked elemental damage.
edit: In an effort to get our answer before forum mods shut us down; I'm done responding to these false allegations.
<3 Free Tibet <3
Last edited by Kieren_GGG on Jun 8, 2014, 1:41:17 PM
I'm still curious whether GGG intends for dual-wielding to be used with things other than Dual Strike. The recent fix didn't change much other than a small DE nerf on Dual Strike, but I don't foresee anyone using alternating 140% Double Strike over simultaneous 180% DE Dual Strike.
GGG will know when dual-wielding is strong enough by looking at wanders. Since they don't have an OP skill to fall back on when dual-wielding, they have the most clear choice between 1h+shield v. dual-wield, both using something like power siphon.
Given that nearly 100% of wanders are 1h+shield (afaict, GGG would have the accurate numbers), something is still amiss.
I'm still curious whether GGG intends for dual-wielding to be used with things other than Dual Strike. The recent fix didn't change much other than a small DE nerf on Dual Strike, but I don't foresee anyone using alternating 140% Double Strike over simultaneous 180% DE Dual Strike.
GGG will know when dual-wielding is strong enough by looking at wanders. Since they don't have an OP skill to fall back on when dual-wielding, they have the most clear choice between 1h+shield v. dual-wield, both using something like power siphon.
Given that nearly 100% of wanders are 1h+shield (afaict, GGG would have the accurate numbers), something is still amiss.
Double strike doesn't alternate.
Maybe I need to make a thread about interesting skill combinations with dual wield so people will get dual strike out of their heads.
I'm still curious whether GGG intends for dual-wielding to be used with things other than Dual Strike. The recent fix didn't change much other than a small DE nerf on Dual Strike, but I don't foresee anyone using alternating 140% Double Strike over simultaneous 180% DE Dual Strike.
GGG will know when dual-wielding is strong enough by looking at wanders. Since they don't have an OP skill to fall back on when dual-wielding, they have the most clear choice between 1h+shield v. dual-wield, both using something like power siphon.
Given that nearly 100% of wanders are 1h+shield (afaict, GGG would have the accurate numbers), something is still amiss.
Double strike doesn't alternate.
D'oh, I meant to clean that up before posting.
Pretend I said "An alternating Heavy Strike (which sucks since enemies get knocked back), an alternating Infernal Blow, Glacial Hammer, Lightning Strike, Molten Strike, or Flicker Strike."
Maybe I need to make a thread about interesting skill combinations with dual wield so people will get dual strike out of their heads.
There aren't a whole lot.
There's a bunch of stuff where you use main-hand only (either with a skill that doesn't alternate hands such as Leap Slam, Ground Slam, or Double Strike) and then use an off-hand "stat" weapon, but none of those have really stood out.
Off-hand Al Dhih (15% ll) is pretty good (ideally with main-hand Bloodseeker and claw passives). Off-hand Last Resort in low life builds is pretty good too. Off-hand 3green Prismatic Eclipse is probably the best option for most of these kind of builds.
And even if these are brought up to par and are super interesting, dual-wield wanders (which have no skills that force the main-hand, or use both hands at once) and dual-wield casters are still kinda out in the cold.
There's a bunch of stuff where you use main-hand only (either with a skill that doesn't alternate hands such as Leap Slam, Ground Slam, or Double Strike) and then use an off-hand "stat" weapon, but none of those have really stood out.
You can also use an off hand weapon that is incompatible with your main skill to force the use of a main hand only. I think you wanted to say that and got side tracked :p. I can't think of a whole lot either, but then again there really are not a lot of melee builds.
I am using
with Heavy Strike and Leap Slam. Up to 12k dps with Heavy Strike. Still tons of room for improvement.
I was thinking dual wielding Doryani's Catalyst could make a pretty decent Glacial Hammer build.
There is an exile that uses dual strike with maces. Maybe you can expand that to a stun lock build. Ground Slam as your aoe.
Melee Cast on Crit should be pretty easy to pull off with double daggers. Maybe use flicker so you are always in range for Ethereal Knives. Voll's Protector and you can spam Cold Snap.
You can also use an off hand weapon that is incompatible with your main skill to force the use of a main hand only. I think you wanted to say that and got side tracked :p.
Twice in a row! I'm... a bit distracted right now. :(
Yeah "either <main hand only> or <incompatible offhand>".
There is an exile that uses dual strike with maces. Maybe you can expand that to a stun lock build. Ground Slam as your aoe.
One of my long-running characters (my namesake character) is a dual-mace marauder.
Dual Strike single target, Ground Slam for aoe. It's alright and does a good job of trashing bosses (which can get stunlocked with enough investment), but it's way less survivable than mace+shield and way less damage than dagger+dagger dual striking. Kinda worst of both worlds, which is a shame.
Melee Cast on Crit should be pretty easy to pull off with double daggers. Maybe use flicker so you are always in range for Ethereal Knives. Voll's Protector and you can spam Cold Snap.
Double dagger casting is pretty legit since you get so much crit chance out of it. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned it as well. It still gives up too much by going away from caster dagger + caster shield (something with crit and a bunch of ES).
Some builds (like Cold Snap or Power Discharge) need the crit to keep the infinite loop of power charges going, so dual caster dagger is pretty much required for those.
